NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #29

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22
Thread 23: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5285690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-23
Thread 24: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5301295-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-24
Thread 25: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5318518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-25
Thread 26: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5335861-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-26
Thread 27: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5372582-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-27
Thread 28: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5374630-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-28

From TT

(repeat)
G C belief - that sex matters GM don't understand q
NC I'll leave it there.

Doesn't even bother dropping an anvil. No sport in this.

NC It was obvious re suspension/ d/x process that SP was unhappy. That she felt f cr being used by man intimidating and humiliating. GM Yes, on Xmas eve
NC ED doesn't doubt genuineness of SP feelings.

GM Doesn't seem to
NC Do you doubt?
GM No
NC I'm giving you the opportunity to say if you think it was ?un/reasonable for SP to object to the [inclusion of DU in f cr]. It's okay if you don't want to take that opportunity.

This new Anvil seems the same size, but is massy. Papers are sliding off the desks towards the middle of the room. Long hair is drifting like there is a Van-der-Graf generator.

GM [declines]

NC thinks for a second, then waves it away. It will keep. The room returns to normal. There is a faint smell of what we hope is ozone.

[short break]

Again, from testimony yesterday that didn't seem to be the "advice", which was before Sandie objected.

It was that it may be discrimination to require transwomen to use a separate space. IB didn't know there were objections / contrary rights issues before the complaint.

And this wasn't formal advice. At this point, getting a letter from a lawyer, you really think they'd get one of their lawyers to deal with and respond.

I wasn’t sure of the accent either but Wikipedia’s entry of “Notable Fifers” lists Shirley Henderson so now I am hearing her voice when I read 😁

I can see how the NHS loses so much money being sued from this systemic incompetence.

Anyway would think they'd never seen a staff complaint before.

I've just broke out the chocolate rich tea biscuits. Who wants one?

GM seems very much out of her depth. None of these people seem to have any clear responses or arguments. Unacceptable given her position responsible for so many people. Head of nursing? And she's acknowledged it is her duty to support her nurses but has spectacularly failed to do so. All on the word (lies) of a transgender doctor who shouted louder. They all need sacking

Here's something on the right page. You can hear it as compared to Kevin Bridges glasgow accent.

Urgh 😩

three rounds of applause for @BezMills. @NebulousDog and @TwoDrifters2 , have you seen the new Rebus? Fife accents there (don't know how well @BezMills thinks they managed them).

No thank you, I've got a tube of Nutella biscuits. They are the business.

I looked up 'Notable Fifers' and got Kuldeep Yadav, Tim Southee, Jhulan Goswami...😉

utterly shameful and will bring her condemnation from all sides.

NC I'm giving you the opportunity to say if you think it was ?un/reasonable for SP to object to the [inclusion of DU in f cr]. It's okay if you don't want to take that opportunity.
This new Anvil seems the same size, but is massy. Papers are sliding off the desks towards the middle of the room. Long hair is drifting like there is a Van-der-Graf generator.
GM [declines]

This seems to establish that either she doesn't feel able to say that this is reasonable, or that she doesn't think it was reasonable - both of which seem to support SP's case.

Honestly there's a lot of Fife accents. If there's a part of the world more densely filled with pockets of humanity, I've no been there. You can go 5 miles down the road and the accent is a wee bit shifted already.

Which doesn’t bode well for those brave foot soldiers who are standing for Womens Officer and LGBTQ Champion in the Students Union, wrapping themselves in trans flags and appropriate pronouns then proudly putting their activism in prime position on their CV when they apply for employment in the real world. Perhaps someone ought to warn them. Or let them find out the hard way.

So does that mean they're breaking the law?

I'm not sure on this either but it certainly seems a blatent disregard of the EA. I think the EA (or is it the EHRC guidelines) has reporting obligations.

NHS seems to have gone all in on GI, and clearly cares not a bit for womens rights.

It's part of the "we are all equal now so women can STFU" mentality we see so much now. Young women are very prone to pushing this "we are all equal therefore THE SAME" message as evidenced by Isla " women can rape men too" Bumpton.

Older women aren't immune either - refer to the Head of Nursing in Fife not knowing that female staff in her care need/want/deserve/are legally required to have SSS.

I'll have one - ta muchly! I'm travelling through Dundee just now on the train and sending all my best to SP and NC ❤️

Self id reigns in gender pay gap reporting -

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/gender-pay-gap-reporting-guidance-for-employers/preparing-your-data

At least twice, NC has offered GM a chance to relent. But both times she's stuck to her guns. Fair enough, she's the one in the big chair.

The reporting of this, in all seriousness, by serious people, are going to be extremely scathing. Can't see any good coming out of it for NHS Fife nor their two star witnesses.

At the risk of derailment, for some surreal Fifeness duting a break, look up Saint Andrew and the Woolen Mill on You tube, It's great to be alev
Video includes Betty Boop!

Back to this thread can't believe these fuckwits are allowed out on their own. Bloody shocking.

You can already hear that's NE Fife, coming out there with the e sound in Alev. Like the Dundee peh (pie).

😆😆😆

Oh dear Isla's testimony yesterday has been used as an excuse to start asking questions about all her dei colleagues 🌞

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/snp-government-created-army-diversity-35572077?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

All of Fife's witnesses seem way out of their depth and to have been promoted waaaaaaaaay over their level of competence

I actually feel sorry for GM with the current perception. It comes across as if she may be on Sandie's side but it's utterly trapped and lacking Sandie's strength.

Considering that even as a senior nurse she is ultimately very low down in the hierarchy of all of the players in this (males, doctors, band 7s...). And unlike IB I imagine she was actually busy trying to manage a number of other things so may have failed to understand the full impact of what was coming daring to take the initial actions as competent in trust.

The problem is, one everything came to light it would have been very hard to undo and I can imagine that she is still fearful for her job. I see someone who doesn't believe TWAW but is doing all she can to minimise personal damage. Because, well probably learned helplessness and a clear example of what happens if you dare step out of line...