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Original poster

NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #27

1000 replies

nauticant · 13/07/2025 08:26

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions wereFri provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

OP posts:

Thread gallery

Original poster

nauticant · 13/07/2025 08:27

Anyone who has been following this will be aware of the incredible work Tribunal Tweets have been doing, especially after livestreaming was ended for most of the observers. Added to this, it seems they've managed the fight the corner for continuing public access very effectively.

For anyone looking to provide financial assistance to a group involved in this clash between women's rights and gender ideology, Tribunal Tweets would be a good cause. As far as I know the way to do that is to subscribe to their Substack, I don't think that one-off donations can be made. If I'm wrong on that, please correct me.

OP posts:

Original poster

nauticant · 13/07/2025 08:28

For anyone following Tribunal Tweets, this is their list of abbreviations used:

C/SP - Claimant, Sandy Peggie
NC - Naomi Cunningham, C’s barrister
MG - Margaret Gribbons, C’s solicitor
R1/Board - first respondent, Fife Health Board
R2/DU - second respondent, Dr B Upton
JR - Jane Russell, KC, barrister for Rs
AW - Adam Watson, solicitor for Rs
J - Employment Judge Alexander Kemp
ET - Employment Tribunal
P1, P2 - additional panel members
CR - changing room
AE - Accident & emergency department
B&H - bullying and harassment
SocMed - social media
SM - Sex Matters
HR - Human Rights
TW - Transwoman
HI - hate incident
PCP - provision, criteria or practice is a rule/policy/ practice that can put ppl at a disadvantage based on certain characteristics. The term is used in employment aw to assess whether an employers actions create different outcomes for mployees based on their characteristics.
KS - Kate Searle, DU's supervisor and A&E consultant
ED - Esther Davidson, SP’s line manager
SF - Stuart Fraser, SP’s RCN Rep
AG - Angela Glancy, headed up SP's investigation
IX - investigation
CX or FC - (formal) complaint
DX - disciplinary
FtP - fitness to practice

OP posts:

nebulousMoose · 13/07/2025 08:29

Thank you very much for the latest thread, @nauticant. Watching with bated breath ...

Original poster

nauticant · 13/07/2025 08:30

Witnesses in the hearing so far with skeleton chronology:

Monday, 3 February 2025
Sandie Peggie

Tuesday, 4 February 2025
Sandie Peggie

Wedneday, 5 February 2025
Sandie Peggie
Maya Forstater
Mr Peggie (Sandie Peggie's husband)
Nicole Peggie (Sandie Peggie's daughter)

Thursday, 6 February 2025
a row about disclosure particularly over BMA documents
Sheila Bell (Sandie Peggie's mum)
Beth Upton

Friday, 7 February 2025
very late start, massive row over disclosure, agreed that Beth Upton would start giving evidence on Monday

Monday 10 February 2025
Beth Upton

Tuesday 11 February 2025
Beth Upton
collapse of public access

Wednesday 12 February 2025
Beth Upton

Thursday 13 February 2025
Esther Davidson

Friday 14 February 2025
Esther Davidson

OP posts:

Bannedontherun · 13/07/2025 10:05

😀

MarieDeGournay · 13/07/2025 10:18

As always, thank you Nauticant, what would we do without you?
You've been like the Northern Star through all this, guiding us to the next thread

MarieDeGournay · 13/07/2025 10:22

I've just remembered Joni Mitchell lines about the Northern Star, so to clarify:
I meant
'the northern one that guides in the sailors
in 'This Flight Tonight',
not
..'I am as constant as the Northern Star?
And I said 'Constantly in the darkness? where's that at?
If you want me I'll be in the bar.'
in 'The Last Time I Saw Richard'

RunningWhileInjured · 13/07/2025 10:24

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c75rxpnqx9yo

It’s worth noting that so far NHS Fife have racked up over £220k worth of costs on this case, that got them to 31st May, so we can expect the final figure to be significantly higher.

Nurse Sandie Peggie has short blonde hair and wears a pink blazer and smiles looking off to the side.

NHS Fife reveals £220,000 legal bill for Sandie Peggie trans row tribunal

Nurse Sandie Peggie was suspended by NHS Fife after she objected to a trans doctor using a women's changing room.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c75rxpnqx9yo

TwelvePercent · 13/07/2025 10:28

It's wrong to say I'm looking forward to the tribunal continuing as my heart goes out to Sandie and what she must have gone through both before and during

However, I am absolutely dying to see what difference the SC clarification is going to make and how Fife are going to justify their actions in the wake.

Do we know if Fife have made any attempts to settle? If they did, Sandie wouldn't have to accept, is that correct?

GCITC · 13/07/2025 10:40

Thanks Nauticant.

Have my fingers crossed that I was successful in getting a remote link.

Skyellaskerry · 13/07/2025 11:27

Just rejoining the discussion and to thank @nauticant

Original poster

nauticant · 13/07/2025 11:40

Cheers for the thank yous.

A taster for the coming week, a state-of-play article in The Sunday Times:

https://archive.ph/kqNJ0

It contains lots of interesting details. For example:

Another expert said they expected the £220,465 cost of defending the case up to May 31 to “at least double” before it was finalised.

The health board confirmed on Friday that it had “accepted liability for any of the claims should they succeed against Dr Beth Upton”, potentially adding to the bill for taxpayers, and that it was also covering Upton’s legal expenses, which are included in the published sum.

OP posts:

Tallisker · 13/07/2025 11:54

Thank you from me too, nauticant. So even if the tribunal finds against Dr U, he won’t suffer any financial detriment?

Apart from actually getting a job as a doctor anywhere after all this…

EternalLodga · 13/07/2025 11:56

In light of the SC ruling, will remote access to the hearing be reinstated?

ItsCoolForCats · 13/07/2025 12:01

Andreas Mueller, from the Environment Agency, who is being taken to tribunal by the person who is also trying to have the SEEN Network shut down, said in his most recent crowdfunder update that the Environment Agency has instructed Jane Russell, the KC in the Fife case, to defend the case.

JonasJr · 13/07/2025 12:12

The Sandie Peggie case has ignited fierce national debate over gender identity vs. biological sex, turning NHS Fife into ground zero in the UK’s war over single-sex spaces. Critics slam the health board’s approach as expensive, secretive, and tone-deaf, while Peggie’s supporters point to a landmark Supreme Court ruling backing her stance — making this more than a workplace dispute, but a defining legal and cultural moment.

OverripeBananaBread · 13/07/2025 12:13

ItsCoolForCats · 13/07/2025 12:01

Amazing

OverripeBananaBread · 13/07/2025 12:14

EternalLodga · 13/07/2025 11:56

In light of the SC ruling, will remote access to the hearing be reinstated?

It has been but applications have closed and those of us who applied still have no idea if we will be sent a link.

In my mind this will reduce the number of people who can make use of a link if they are finally sent it.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 13/07/2025 12:16

Has this become the very definition of an open and shut case now? There is zero chance the TRAs win correct?

myplace · 13/07/2025 12:19

Thank you Nauticant.

I felt massively sorry for Sandie at the start. Now however, I imagine her with no fucks left to give.

I hope I’m not wrong, but under the circumstances I would have thought she was past fretting about it. Fife have shown themselves up as a useless shower of shit and it’s clearly not her fault. Upton has shown himself up as a narc who models himself on Delores Umbridge, and she doesn’t have to work with him. What’s not to love?

Scout2016 · 13/07/2025 12:42

In light of the SC ruling, I would like to hear the defendants' explanation as to how they came to misunderstand the law. I am guessing it's version of "Stonewall said so" and if so I want them asked why they didn't check it themselves before implementing their version. They must have known other people were saying it was incorrect.

I have lost track a but, do we know what the decision was around the phone check and additional respondant please?

Also looking forward to Sandie's case against her union. So brilliant of her to take them to task too.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/07/2025 12:44

Thanks for new thread, will be avidly following as I can’t observe this time.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/07/2025 12:46

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 13/07/2025 12:16

Has this become the very definition of an open and shut case now? There is zero chance the TRAs win correct?

No, because their case rests on portraying Sandie Peggie as at best unreasonable and at worst negligent, bigoted and abusive. There are no guarantees however preposterous we think their case is.

nocoolnamesleft · 13/07/2025 13:00

Gosh, the date of reconvening is getting very close. All fingers crossed that Sandie. and common sense, will win the day. As a female NHS staff member, watching this very closely.

Conxis · 13/07/2025 13:04

Scout2016 · 13/07/2025 12:42

I have lost track a but, do we know what the decision was around the phone check and additional respondant please?

Also looking forward to Sandie's case against her union. So brilliant of her to take them to task too.

The staff on the ground may not have understood the law and I reckon they will hold the line of following Scotland wide policies. But the health secretary at Scot gov (who ultimately runs the nhs in Scotland) must have known self ID was not legal.

Westminster had blocked the GRR.
The first FWS case had already established self ID’d women were not women and the Supreme Court ruling was only concerning gender recognition certificates. The KC for Scot Gov even said herself in the supreme court that a trans woman without a GRC is a man.
They are now all trying to blame the EHRC for giving wrong guidance but I’m pretty sure that also only covered GRCs.

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