NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #29

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22
Thread 23: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5285690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-23
Thread 24: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5301295-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-24
Thread 25: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5318518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-25
Thread 26: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5335861-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-26
Thread 27: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5372582-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-27
Thread 28: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5374630-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-28

I'm confused. On Linkedin GM is shown as being "Director of Nursing Acute - NHS Lothian Full Time" from April 2019 - June 2025. She only became Executive Director of Nursing at NHS Fife in July 2025.

Was she on secondment to Fife? It sounds to me as if there ought to have been a couple of layers of command below her; maybe not?

Anyway, a big thank you to everybody contributing this morning. It has been most amusing.

I NEED that laugh emoji 🤣 😂
I think id ditch part of that 🤔

The claimant was represented by husband (also a doctor) who gave up work and spent night-after-night studying employment law to represent his wife.

www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/husband-of-doctor-in-ps45m-bias-payout-speaks-out-1913419

This 'manner' of SP's that displeased BU. Was it her use of the spoken word, or did he not like the way she looked at him (perhaps she didn't smile)?

I hope NC will unpack exactly what is meant by 'confrontational'.

I find the 'women should be seen and not heard' (particularly the nurse/servant class) mindset unacceptable in the 21st century.

the only problem is, the deepest river in Fife is about 3 feet deep at the end of a rainy spring.

Woollyback?! 😍

Oh, and this use of 'Beth' when referring to Doctor Upton, which was being urged on us yesterday, seems very counterproductive as it undermines the chances of his being seen as a serious professional medic.

Kirkcaldy is right by the sea, or does that stretch of water still count as the Forth?

😂

Or their chances of being seen as unbiased

I can't hear a word NC is saying! So annoying.

I still can't get back in. Are they at lunch now?

I may be wrong (I’m sure to be corrected if I am), but I thought that the situation was that Sandie, at the end of her tether at being basically told to forget her complaint, said in that case she would have to speak to the good doctor Upton herself. And, that the person who had been conveying Sandie’s complaint upwards, did not really respond to that.

So, in my interpretation, Sandie was told she would just have to suck it up, and was met with silence when she said she’d have to complain to Upton herself if she encountered him in female changing room. Seeing as she had no way of complaining to the org which were enabling men to encroach on the female changing room.`

She dared to not #bekind

"It's almost like the BMA mate tipped him off that more accusations were needed to get rid of SP"

yeah it's almost as if that's completely correct.

Too bad it's all turned out like an abject horror show of lies, incompetence, , homework cribbing, overpromoted graduate, leaderless vacuum, undocumented meetings, no attempt to follow procedure, lack of documentation, derogation of responsibility and general across-the-board unprofessional malfeasance.

If it wasn't for those teensy tiny aforementioned flaws, it was an otherwise flawless plan to be fair.

Hard to guess which way the judgement will go...

I can't give the details, but NHS management does seem particularly bad for this having worked in an anon public sector employer.

NHS denied me treatment because of false information minimising my condition, from the report afterwards. I let them know, no result. Submitted a formal complaint and the investigating officer offered to correct the false information but not to reconsider treating me!

I had to threaten them with going to the ombudsman before someone else got involved and in fits of laughter (what else can you do...I didn't mind...) agreed with me, had a reassessment, got on waiting list for treatment...

Stuff goes wrong in any organisation, you need an effective process to resolve this and the NHS generally doesn't seem to have one.

It strikes me that the NHS could save a shedload of money by only paying employees according to their willingness to accept responsibility for anything under their remit.

Finally caught up.

Took me longer than it should, because I was frantically trying to google that Scottish word from a little known dialect 'vileda'.

Took me an embarrassingly long time to say (out loud, mind you), ohh Vileda!

Thanks BezMills 😁

My god. This is quite utterly unbelievable. That NHS CONSULTANTS can behave so utterly appallingly really fucks with my head.

Plus they were expecting the accused scold woman to just go quietly...

“Male medical staff claiming they are biologically female.”

”Female staff unable to absolutely say they are biologically female”

You can see where this whole thing has got so convoluted can’t you.

” Well I always thought I was female, what with having breasts, a vagina and periods, but the Dr says he is categorically female and I have it on good authority that he has a penis, which I don’t have , so now I don’t know, because if a Dr says having a penis is something women have then what does that make me? An inferior sort of woman, a non woman? How much does a chromosome test cost anyway?”

.

No head tilt?

NC has turned her microphone on. Hurray!

Doesn't surprise me, there's an investigation going on in Belfast at the moment into the toxic working conditions at the cardiac surgery unit including bullying of junior staff, surgeons not coming into work, and throwing instruments during surgery!!