NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #29

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22
Thread 23: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5285690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-23
Thread 24: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5301295-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-24
Thread 25: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5318518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-25
Thread 26: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5335861-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-26
Thread 27: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5372582-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-27
Thread 28: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5374630-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-28

…and yet both IB and GM have managed to correctly sex him

Is ED being set up to take the fall?

Yes, where is/was the union rep for Sandie in all of this?

And when I was in nursing it was drummed into us that we had to document EVERYTHING..if it wasn't documented it didn't happen..

But then again if you don't want any evidence of things that DID happen then you just conveniently 'forget' to document it.

So much horseshit in the NHS with people covering.things up and /or passing the buck

Ooooooh! Gaun Naomi! I think she's so impressive, I wish I had a fraction of her intelligence and patience!

So again it's really clear that no one could possibly have raised TW in female SSS without being punished for it.

NC - if the Tribunal finds that C did not ask DU about his genes, it was not appropriate for her to tell DU shouldn't be in changing room,
GM - clarify
NC - if SP had only said she didn't think DU should be in f cr.
GM - it had been addressed, we had taken advice DU was entitled to use the f cr. NC - so it was discriminatory to raise the issue at all?
GM - yes.
J - time for a 5 minute break I think. Court rises.

GM is talking about the risk assessment apparently done by ED, was there one? I can't seem to recall (ha!) if any actual risk assessments were done at any point?

I think she didn’t want union representation because she likely knew that they would have joined in with the “burn the witch” chants.

I'm as shocked at the lack of proper record keeping as anything else. Anyone in administration should know you're just setting yourself up for problems when anything goes wrong.

And a fine example of the trust leadership going into reverse Spartacus mode. It wisnae me, it wis th'yon ither wans. (sorry, Ballymena is about as close to Fife as I can do)

Making fun of names from your own culture is one thing. Making fun of foreign names (particularly African names) is something quite different. Personally I find the comments on IB’s name profoundly distasteful.

I've been on the phone for an hour. Did I miss anything?

They wouldn't refer to any other doctor (male or female) by their first name alone. It's obvious what they are doing here.

Thanks @BezMills for pasting the TT stuff for us, your translations at the bottom are making me laugh too😂

😂😂😂😂😂

’Phone Taggart….there’s been a murder!

I seem to recall she wasn't offered one. Was just told it was a meeting. It was so long ago this was discussed but I do remember something about this.

I think you are right about the meeting with ED in Jan! Well remembered. I am probably just adding in my own bias about the way unions treat women.

Didn't her Union refuse to represent her? Isn't she suing them because of that?

🎯

That's astonishing.

Part of their evidence was that no one had complained apart from SP. But they also say to complain would have been discrimination and therefore I would suspect a disciplinary matter. 🤯

I'm feeling the need to send another card to Sandie. And maybe one to Naomi and Margaret who are her legal team

Oft to be fair you've missed a lot. That hour of NC vc 'the most senior representative of NHS Fife' is probably the pivot of the entire case. At least I think so...

We're on the wrong side of the country, but if we were over West the next call is going to be to Chief Inspector Taggart of Maryhill CID. There's been a murrrdurrr.

Quite. Using his first name (whichever one!) could imply a level of relationship or attitude to him, clearly not enjoyed by Sandie. She's not treating them equally in her mind.

It should have been in disclosure if it had existed.

Is it remotely possible that the witness doesn’t know the outcome of the investigation (as it was only announced on Monday and she’s probably been told to keep off X and news etc)?

Can't hear this witness at all. Getting these vibes

https://music.getyarn.io/yarn-clip/62718f13-3a78-4cdd-a61a-69bd77ef4475

haha a day late and a dollar short, beaten to the punchline to be fair

It seems like the only number that that had been checked was 1-5 trans employees

JR - stfu.