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Original poster

NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #29

1000 replies

nauticant · 16/07/2025 20:46

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

OP posts:

Thread gallery

ThatCyanCat · 17/07/2025 12:44

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 17/07/2025 12:41

That's astonishing.

Part of their evidence was that no one had complained apart from SP. But they also say to complain would have been discrimination and therefore I would suspect a disciplinary matter. 🤯

Show quote history

And now it's really clear what happens to women who complain!

Rostering so these two don't confront each other is a sticking plaster. Women shouldn't need special arrangements made for when they want to exercise their right to be unclothed away from men. Any woman working any shift has a right to a SS changing room.

Pharos · 17/07/2025 12:44

Never mind Naomi’s rakes, how the hell did GM sneak in the huge spade she’s currently using to dig herself into an ever deeper hole?

Boiledbeetle · 17/07/2025 12:44

Fife giving a good example of Sandie being wrong no matter what she did.

FingleGlen · 17/07/2025 12:45

MarieDeGournay · 17/07/2025 12:28

And here it comes rom NC, after a few outswingers, the yorker:

. NC - so it was discriminatory to raise the issue [of DrU being in the women's CR] at all?

inother words, getting GM to say that SP asserting her rights under the EA, workplace regs etc was 'discriminatory'.

And yet IB yesterday constantly referred to her decision being based on no one raising an issue.

But raising an issue gets you investigated for being discriminatory.

There's a hole in my bucket.

chilling19 · 17/07/2025 12:45

Given that the internal investigation found no evidence, I’m not sure what is happening here? The tribunal cannot find differently can they?

ThatCyanCat · 17/07/2025 12:46

If Fife has offered to settle, would that be public knowledge at this point?

(ETA: I really fucking hate my new phone. Even autocorrect gives me stupid typos.)

chilling19 · 17/07/2025 12:46

Also, didn’t Sandie raise this with her manager before the changing room incident?

SlackJawedDisbeliefXY · 17/07/2025 12:47

NebulousDogWhistleIsReality · 17/07/2025 12:34

Ooooooh! Gaun Naomi! I think she's so impressive, I wish I had a fraction of her intelligence and patience!

So again it's really clear that no one could possibly have raised TW in female SSS without being punished for it.

NC - if the Tribunal finds that C did not ask DU about his genes, it was not appropriate for her to tell DU shouldn't be in changing room,
GM - clarify
NC - if SP had only said she didn't think DU should be in f cr.
GM - it had been addressed, we had taken advice DU was entitled to use the f cr. NC - so it was discriminatory to raise the issue at all?
GM - yes.
J - time for a 5 minute break I think. Court rises.

GM is talking about the risk assessment apparently done by ED, was there one? I can't seem to recall (ha!) if any actual risk assessments were done at any point?

GM - it had been addressed, we had taken advice DU was entitled to use the f

Losing the track here - I thought that their policies had been based on copying what everyone else was doing.

Did they also take legal advice that DU should be using the women's toilet?

Boiledbeetle · 17/07/2025 12:47

chilling19 · 17/07/2025 12:46

Also, didn’t Sandie raise this with her manager before the changing room incident?

Yep. Got nowhere had convo with her boss that she'd have to say something to Beth if encountered him again and got no pushback from boss

I think

NebulousDogWhistleIsReality · 17/07/2025 12:47

chilling19 · 17/07/2025 12:46

Also, didn’t Sandie raise this with her manager before the changing room incident?

Yes! Twice I think

chilling19 · 17/07/2025 12:50

I guess NC will refer to the previous reports by Sandie in her closing.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/07/2025 12:50

SternJoyousBee · 17/07/2025 12:32

…and yet both IB and GM have managed to correctly sex him

Show quote history

No one said it was ever going to be 100% successful as a tactic 😂

chilling19 · 17/07/2025 12:51

Come on. Answer

FingleGlen · 17/07/2025 12:51

SlackJawedDisbeliefXY · 17/07/2025 12:47

GM - it had been addressed, we had taken advice DU was entitled to use the f

Losing the track here - I thought that their policies had been based on copying what everyone else was doing.

Did they also take legal advice that DU should be using the women's toilet?

Show quote history

I think GM is referring to IB saying it was all good

NebulousDogWhistleIsReality · 17/07/2025 12:52

Boiledbeetle · 17/07/2025 12:47

Yep. Got nowhere had convo with her boss that she'd have to say something to Beth if encountered him again and got no pushback from boss

I think

Show quote history

Oh yes that's right! She was told to say something to DrU!

Sandie was going to be damned either way, no matter what she did. All she wanted was for hers and the other female employees lawful rights to be upheld by her employer, instead they steam rolled them for the sheer entitlement of a man😡

Waitwhat23 · 17/07/2025 12:52

Re : union - it was the RCN and they refused to help Sandie Peggie

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14744275/Nurse-embroiled-trans-doctor-tribunal-takes-legal-action-against-union.html

Nurse embroiled in trans doctor tribunal suing her own union

The nurse embroiled in an employment tribunal over a trans doctor using a female changing room is suing the Royal College of Nursing.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14744275/Nurse-embroiled-trans-doctor-tribunal-takes-legal-action-against-union.html

chilling19 · 17/07/2025 12:52

It is astounding that a distressed woman is completely ignored.

AAT65 · 17/07/2025 12:52

BettyBooper · 17/07/2025 12:38

I seem to recall she wasn't offered one. Was just told it was a meeting. It was so long ago this was discussed but I do remember something about this.

Show quote history

My recollection is hazy but I think in the first meeting she was advised she could have union representation but she went ahead without. Saying "offered" representation is wrong. Management don't wheel in a union rep if you ask. IIRC she probably wanted this over quickly and went in without. Subsequent union representation (or lack thereof) was, however, dire.

chilling19 · 17/07/2025 12:53

Killer question - 2 sexes?

chilling19 · 17/07/2025 12:53

COMPLEX for the bingo card

MarieDeGournay · 17/07/2025 12:54

Getting GM to say this out loud is powerful:
GM - she says she feels intimidated, isn't it obvious that she doesn't want to get undressed in front of a man and she doesn't believe that DU..

Waitwhat23 · 17/07/2025 12:54

And from MBM -

https://murrayblackburnmackenzie.org/2025/02/21/gender-self-identification-and-the-royal-college-of-nursing/

Gender self-identification and the Royal College of Nursing - Murray Blackburn Mackenzie

Introduction It has been reported that the Royal College of Nursing (RCN) has ‘refused to represent’ Sandie Peggie, the nurse currently pursuing a harassment claim against her employer, NHS Fife, after she encountered a male doctor in the female changi...

https://murrayblackburnmackenzie.org/2025/02/21/gender-self-identification-and-the-royal-college-of-nursing/

Boiledbeetle · 17/07/2025 12:54

chilling19 · 17/07/2025 12:52

It is astounding that a distressed woman is completely ignored.

Yet totally unsurprising

ickky · 17/07/2025 12:55

Funny how the verbal answer is in the affirmative and the head is shaking no!

NebulousDogWhistleIsReality · 17/07/2025 12:55

MarieDeGournay · 17/07/2025 12:54

Getting GM to say this out loud is powerful:
GM - she says she feels intimidated, isn't it obvious that she doesn't want to get undressed in front of a man and she doesn't believe that DU..

TT corrected that in the next tweet, it was a question from NC not an answer from GM

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