Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #29

1000 replies

nauticant · 16/07/2025 20:46

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22
Thread 23: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5285690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-23
Thread 24: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5301295-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-24
Thread 25: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5318518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-25
Thread 26: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5335861-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-26
Thread 27: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5372582-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-27
Thread 28: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5374630-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-28

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
sillygoof · 17/07/2025 11:42

I’m going to have a go at some of these Fife translations in my Brummie accent 😂

ThatCyanCat · 17/07/2025 11:42

Making fun via names is pretty common. Private Eye does it all the time. Ed Ballsup, Piers Moron, Carter Fuck, Crapita, WorstGroup....

MarieDeGournay · 17/07/2025 11:43

GreenFriedTomato · 17/07/2025 11:41

You've lost me now. I need more coffee

don't mind me just being silly about running side discussion about how we take jumpers off😃

anyolddinosaur · 17/07/2025 11:43

Not finding an Isla Marie McLeod on Scottish people or GRO (England & Wales births). I believe she may have been on X Isla Rose-Marie McLeod. If she doesnt know her sex does she perhaps not recall her name?

Boiledbeetle · 17/07/2025 11:43

I'm completely lost at where we are up to. Obv too distracted by jumpers

ickky · 17/07/2025 11:44

TBF we are easily distracted.

ICouldHaveCheckedFirst · 17/07/2025 11:45

Tricky things, jumpers. Have you considered a cardigan instead?

MyAmpleSheep · 17/07/2025 11:45

ThatCyanCat · 17/07/2025 11:42

Making fun via names is pretty common. Private Eye does it all the time. Ed Ballsup, Piers Moron, Carter Fuck, Crapita, WorstGroup....

Those are companies, and well-known public figures who have a platform and can give as good as they get.

Boiledbeetle · 17/07/2025 11:45

ickky · 17/07/2025 11:44

TBF we are easily distracted.

squirrel GIF

Totally!

ickky · 17/07/2025 11:46

or an elegant gilet

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 17/07/2025 11:46

GM ‘what am I meant to say?’ You’re meant to tell the truth dear, and while you’re at it, I strongly suggest you don’t take that tone with NC 😂

BezMills · 17/07/2025 11:47

From TT

NC - IB said yesterday that she was unsure what sex she was because she had not had her chromosomes tested. Are you also uncertain.
GM - i believe I am female
NC - and do you believe that's medically important and relevant information about you
GM - what am I meant to say? yes

Fifer : you wid think it wid be obvious, but... (hand gesture indicating ... wtf)

NC - email from J Doyle, you were clear in your answer that this was about SP raising concerns about DU in the f cr.
GM - I wasn't present, but that's what I believe it was about
NC - you suggested transgender awareness training so it was obvious what it was about

Fifer : Training is it aye? Thon Doctor needed telt where the loddies get changed mair like.

GM - yes
NC - clarifies GM title, and J Doyle title. And J Doyle was senior person on call when incident occurred and he suggested suspension.
GM - yes
J - need to catch up

Fifer : Ma heid is birlin, gies a minute hen

NC - Doyle head of nursing acute services, but time of incident. Would you expect heads of nursing to be involved. P1 - I can't hear your answer at all
GM - it depends on who the i/x officer is. I was asked to appoint someone
NC - it was for you to decide who would i/x since ED could not.
GM - yes
NC - email says 5 Jan 2024, 3 attachments, listed , pdf, i/x planning, and an NHS Scotland work force i/x planning doc. Is that what's attached as Attach 2 to that email. Do you agree.
GM - it would appear to be the 2nd attachment
NC - that is an i/x doc with lots of info filled in, populated with quite a lot of info
GM - yes
NC - email from J Doyle to ED, seems to be giving lots of specific instructions, that's surprising
GM - ED was a relatively new nurse manager, so he was giving her support from his experience
NC - wasn't it for you to have oversight of this, given that you would have to replace

Fifer : the faint but distinctive soond ay a second rake being slid intae position

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 17/07/2025 11:48

Boiledbeetle · 17/07/2025 11:45

Totally!

Happy Lets Go GIF by Holler Studios

Look, there’s a squirrel.

MarieDeGournay · 17/07/2025 11:48

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 17/07/2025 11:46

GM ‘what am I meant to say?’ You’re meant to tell the truth dear, and while you’re at it, I strongly suggest you don’t take that tone with NC 😂

I think it's unintentionally revealing, as she obviously went along with 'what she was meant to say' about DrU, although I suspect it went against her knowledge and experience from years and years as a nurse.

SternJoyousBee · 17/07/2025 11:48

Is GM the most senior nurse at the hospital?

She only believes she is female. I’m not a medic of any description and I know for a fact that I’m female.

SerafinasGoose · 17/07/2025 11:48

Deadcog · 17/07/2025 09:05

Thank you. So am I right in thinking a colleague could make every genuine effort to discuss DU by nouns and not pronouns and that would be ok? Obviously in person it’s easier to avoid pronouns completely.

If anything else, this is the compassionate option and that's the line I will be taking if ever anyone challenges me on this. The odd slip can happen as it's an unnatural way of speaking, but I switch to the passive voice or second-person so as to actively avoid the use of gender/sex-based pronouns. This isn't rude or disrespectful. It's the reverse.

Do this and no one can be offended if you forget, or don't know in the first place, how they want to be referred to - and when dealing with large groups it's sometimes impossible to remember. I work with a number of trans peope, incidentally. From the other perspective, theoretically no one can be disciplined for something they did not say. This approach covers both bases.

It's come to something when legislation has to be brought to the tune that people can think what they bloody well like. That's a sliver away from two-way transmission telescreens and drones outside the window to ensure no facial expression gives away one iota of independence of thought. It surprises me that even the most pro-TRA of people are not alarmed by the implications of this. Prevailing winds change. Thought-control might be working in their favour - until the point that it doesn't.

Boiledbeetle · 17/07/2025 11:49

Layers. You need layers!

T shirt, cardigan, gilet

NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #29
Vegemiteandhoneyontoast · 17/07/2025 11:49

elegant gilet

That's a 'weskit' where I'm from.

TrainedByCats · 17/07/2025 11:49

PutThe · 17/07/2025 10:37

If I were her I'd go back to my birth surname, at least professionally.

I know this isn’t the point but she changed her name (presumably on marriage) to Bumba 😳 rather than keep her own name. That alone suggests poor judgement..

I feel a teeny tiny bit sorry for her re the trans disappointment in her for the ‘misgendering’, but it’s what people like her need to happen for them to, hopefully, realise they will never be pure enough.

witchesfly · 17/07/2025 11:50

Just coming on to boast that I've upped my game in the observation stakes. I have acquired an EXTRA screen. Total game changer.

ThatCyanCat · 17/07/2025 11:50

MarieDeGournay · 17/07/2025 11:48

I think it's unintentionally revealing, as she obviously went along with 'what she was meant to say' about DrU, although I suspect it went against her knowledge and experience from years and years as a nurse.

It shows that she knows how stupid it is that she's had to work under the feigned belief that it's not straightforward.

SerafinasGoose · 17/07/2025 11:50

Vegemiteandhoneyontoast · 17/07/2025 11:49

elegant gilet

That's a 'weskit' where I'm from.

'Spilt more ale down t'weskit, than you've supped th'night!'

I'll get me coat ...

ickky · 17/07/2025 11:51

witchesfly · 17/07/2025 11:50

Just coming on to boast that I've upped my game in the observation stakes. I have acquired an EXTRA screen. Total game changer.

Have you been practicing your witchcraft to attain this benefit?

ThatCyanCat · 17/07/2025 11:51

TrainedByCats · 17/07/2025 11:49

I know this isn’t the point but she changed her name (presumably on marriage) to Bumba 😳 rather than keep her own name. That alone suggests poor judgement..

I feel a teeny tiny bit sorry for her re the trans disappointment in her for the ‘misgendering’, but it’s what people like her need to happen for them to, hopefully, realise they will never be pure enough.

she changed her name (presumably on marriage) to Bumba 😳 rather than keep her own name.

It also strongly suggests that she knows she's female because it's very uncommon for men to do this.

witchesfly · 17/07/2025 11:52

ickky · 17/07/2025 11:51

Have you been practicing your witchcraft to attain this benefit?

Edited

well I haven't said how I acquired it. Magic innit

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.
Swipe left for the next trending thread