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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #29

1000 replies

nauticant · 16/07/2025 20:46

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22
Thread 23: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5285690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-23
Thread 24: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5301295-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-24
Thread 25: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5318518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-25
Thread 26: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5335861-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-26
Thread 27: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5372582-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-27
Thread 28: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5374630-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-28

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AAT65 · 17/07/2025 11:23

MarieDeGournay · 17/07/2025 11:19

I take off a jumper by sliding my hand up the sleeves - one at a time, obvs - to removed my arms from the sleeves and then pulling the jumper over my head.
It seems important to share this information😏

I do likewise after removing my glasses. Don't wear make up now but it does allow you to control how the neck scrapes over your face.

Hillfarmer · 17/07/2025 11:23

nauticant · 17/07/2025 11:20

If you are going to wait, then in the meantime it would be handy to download an alternative browser if possible.

OK many thanks. I joined late. I didn't realise you have to be in the waiting room before the session started so maybe I have missed the cut. I thought you could join during the session...

I'm on Safari, which worked well (for a time) in February... but I only got audio yesterday.

BezMills · 17/07/2025 11:24

Glasses off, held in right hand, jumper over head and onto arms. Then put glasses on immediately before getting jumper off the arms and turning it right way out.

MarieDeGournay · 17/07/2025 11:24

Jaws2025 · 17/07/2025 11:21

Wanting to get to the cross examination

Yes, I think the discussion about how to take a jumper off reflects a certain degree of 'when is ✨NC✨on next??'😉

Boiledbeetle · 17/07/2025 11:25

I'm a remove arms first then wrestle it off over my head woman.

MarieDeGournay · 17/07/2025 11:26

BezMills · 17/07/2025 11:24

Glasses off, held in right hand, jumper over head and onto arms. Then put glasses on immediately before getting jumper off the arms and turning it right way out.

Bez! That's in English! You're bilingual! What a talented woman!😂
edited to say yeah I know that's being diglossic not bilingual, but where's the double entendre fun in that?😄

Boiledbeetle · 17/07/2025 11:27

Of course since I became a woman of a certain age a while back jumpers are a complete no no. You just can't get them off quick enough when your internal heat jumps up 59 degrees in a millisecond

CriticalCondition · 17/07/2025 11:28

I agree that it's a bit off making 'fun' of IB's married surname which no doubt is completely unremarkable in her husband's country.

NebulousDogWhistleIsReality · 17/07/2025 11:28

Hem up and over if I'm standing up, arms out first and then over the head if I'm sitting down for me. Agree getting stuck in there is claustrophobia panic time!

I am now at that stage in life where when I take off a jumper I sometimes end up pulling my shoulder or putting my back out at the same time 😅

Beowulfa · 17/07/2025 11:28

Thanks BezMills. I am aiming to use "that's just the way the jobbie plops" on a daily basis from now on. I realise it sounds best in a proper hardcore Scottish accent.

PrettyDamnCosmic · 17/07/2025 11:29

Hillfarmer · 17/07/2025 11:05

I know this is old hat, but I'm trying to get in to the Tribunal remote access... I have a pin and permission/link etc but all I'm getting is a black screen. Any ideas... am I in a waiting room. How long for..minutes, hours? Any thoughts welcome. Please and Thank you.

On my MacBook it doesn't work with Safari but does with Chrome. I couldn't get it working on my iPhone at all whether I used Safari, Chrome or Firefox.

BezMills · 17/07/2025 11:29

MarieDeGournay · 17/07/2025 11:26

Bez! That's in English! You're bilingual! What a talented woman!😂
edited to say yeah I know that's being diglossic not bilingual, but where's the double entendre fun in that?😄

Edited

Eh I'm no a lassie but I'll take the compliment!

NebulousDog · 17/07/2025 11:29

For those of you observing in Panavision, is the courtroom packed?

Why is it that the judge can't simply ask that somebody nips out to B&Q to buy some fans?

Boiledbeetle · 17/07/2025 11:30

NebulousDog · 17/07/2025 11:29

For those of you observing in Panavision, is the courtroom packed?

Why is it that the judge can't simply ask that somebody nips out to B&Q to buy some fans?

Can't see the audience

MarieDeGournay · 17/07/2025 11:30

BezMills · 17/07/2025 11:29

Eh I'm no a lassie but I'll take the compliment!

Oh well, nobody's perfectGrin

GCITC · 17/07/2025 11:30

Hillfarmer · 17/07/2025 11:23

OK many thanks. I joined late. I didn't realise you have to be in the waiting room before the session started so maybe I have missed the cut. I thought you could join during the session...

I'm on Safari, which worked well (for a time) in February... but I only got audio yesterday.

Yes, try a different browser. Working fine for me on Microsoft Edge. Get nothing on Firefox.

BezMills · 17/07/2025 11:31

MarieDeGournay · 17/07/2025 11:30

Oh well, nobody's perfectGrin

ye can only play the cairds ye'r dealt eh

Keenovay · 17/07/2025 11:31

We've all witnessed guys dragging the jumper over the scruff of their neck and revealing a wide expanse of bare back when their T shirt rides up with it. As women wear bras, I believe they learn to avoid this scenario with the more modest cross armed side lift.

Yetanothernewname101 · 17/07/2025 11:31

PutThe · 17/07/2025 10:37

If I were her I'd go back to my birth surname, at least professionally.

I was thinking that too. Change of surname, go do a training course to qualify as something else, give it 5 years and she will hopefully be doing ok.
I hope she has union support, this is something that she probably never expected might happen when she took the job etc.

Greyskybluesky · 17/07/2025 11:31

BezMills · 17/07/2025 11:31

ye can only play the cairds ye'r dealt eh

Misgendering you is a serious crime, Bez, I suggest you complain immediately.

Shortshriftandlethal · 17/07/2025 11:31

This reply has been deleted

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

Somebody made a play on words.....hardly a hanging offence. I get that everyone is a human being, but any one in such a role, and a highly paid public role at that...has to be responsible for their actions.

People make jokes about public figures and they always will.
You've now introduced her maiden name......was there a need for that?

GallantKumquat · 17/07/2025 11:31

RavenPie · 17/07/2025 11:01

It was her MSP who put her in touch with FWS iirc

Wow! What luck. They deserve a medal.

CompleteGinasaur · 17/07/2025 11:32

As a daft aside, I'm loving how fast these threads shoot to the top of "Trending" as soon as the Tribunal opens. Almost like "Feminism : Sex and Gender" is the only bit of "Feminism" anyone's bothered about..

MarieDeGournay · 17/07/2025 11:33

BezMills · 17/07/2025 11:31

ye can only play the cairds ye'r dealt eh

Pity DrU isn't as wise and philosophical as you are about the hand he was dealt😐

BezMills · 17/07/2025 11:33

aye, you sometimes get the reddit scoldbots moaning that nobody is posting in the other bit. They could lead by example, but somehow don't feel like it.

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