NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #29

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22
Thread 23: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5285690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-23
Thread 24: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5301295-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-24
Thread 25: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5318518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-25
Thread 26: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5335861-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-26
Thread 27: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5372582-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-27
Thread 28: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5374630-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-28

😂

It was a stitch up from the start. I think there's a strong hierarchy and class bias to this. It's speculation but how differently might this have played out, had a female doctor felt harassed or threatened by a trans identified male nurse in the changing room? I think management would have been more even handed and tried to find a compromise. It's far easier to force out a working class nurse...or so they thought!

It was Christmas!

JR - another email - from JD to GM, re Datix, forwarded Datix
what is a Datix GM - formal NHS incident reporting system
Jr - did you read at the time GM - I was off duty over the festive period, so did not read
JR - refs to bullying/potential hate incident
GM - I thought it was correct, Datix gives you categories

There was an email from HR saying they couldn't see what SP has done wrong, but that was quickly disregarded by the baying mob

MSP?

No idea what will happen to the rest of her career, but depending on the judgement, this case may be the nail in the coffin for DEI posts in the NHS (as opposed to dividing the responsibilities between people with expertise in law/HR/patient care).

MSP (Member Scottish Parliament) Fifer : poond shop MP

From TT

JR - we would support her being accompanied by union rep or colleague, what's your understanding of that
GM - yes, that's what we would normally expect
JR - you requested info, passed things on to Lottie, what was that
GM - the right to be represented, that was what I passed on to her
JR - why that
GM - she'd been in discussions with central legal office, and need more info
JR - another email, SP had escalated her concerns on DU using Cr on 2 previous occasions, how was that
GM - there had been a teams meeting, is my recollection, ED couldn't be the i/x officer because she had been on duty, needed another one

Yes I'm puzzled by that, hadn't read anything about n MSP being involved??

Re the David report - didn’t IB say she was unaware of who the complainants were, and didn’t know the sex of the complainer? Whereas Malone is saying something completely different.

*Datex

I think Neale Hanvey was involved from the beginning. I have a vague recollection.

If it means Member of Scottish Parliament, nice one Sandie!

Wasn't it Daisy Donovan that used do this on the 11 o'clock show?

It was her MSP who put her in touch with FWS iirc

I used to do a similar role, attempted to make it about broad DEI but found that higher up the organisation, all that was given airtime was LGBT+
As with your example, when anyone tried to get other protected characteristics onto the agenda, it was like speaking a different language. Almost as though they weren't part of the same legislation and didn't matter as much.
I gave up the role when I was told that I was expected to have my pronouns on my signature and to 'speak out' in support of things that I felt uncomfortable with and that, in my private view, potentially excluded some other protected characteristic populations. Our work policies meant that if anyone said anything that disagreed with the Stonewall-aligned rhetoric, even as a private individual, they could be put through a disciplinary. Very much their way or the highway. I really hope that the recent court cases and tribunals may start to change that narrative and direction of travel.

Neale was a nurse himself before becoming an MSP, and has been very supportive of the GC cause.

Right - good for her, shows how she senses what she was up against.
but I think she wasn’t allowed the MSP with her iirc

Member of the Scottish Parliament

I know this is old hat, but I'm trying to get in to the Tribunal remote access... I have a pin and permission/link etc but all I'm getting is a black screen. Any ideas... am I in a waiting room. How long for..minutes, hours? Any thoughts welcome. Please and Thank you.

From TT

JR - says you were aware of SP having concerns
GM - that is not my recollection, I had seen the JDoyle email from end of August, but not aware of anything else at that point
JR - email from Fife Solicitors to Tribunal, change of i/x manager from ED to Angela Glancy, how did that happen.
GM - I was asked to appoint an new i/x, I called 2 other clinical managers, one was Angela Glancy (AG) to take on workplace i/x. AG said she had capacity. I then confirmed that to HR.
JR - Moving to March, from Charlotte Miles to you, summary of SP suspension meeting what was your input
GM - I had no input, it would be unusual for me to be involved in that kind of matter
JR - email from you to Melanie, suggesting a different shift pattern, why did you suggest
GM - an ongoing i/x, they shouldn't be working together and avoid any repeat best they don't work at the same time.
JR - April SP return to work, issue of whether Band 7 or Band 6 be involved, why would that be reasonable
<J asking for help with docs>
GM a Band 7 is a senior charge nurse, Band 6, an experienced charge nurse - I felt it was reasonable her to return to work with one of them on shift to offer her support
JR - what is a designated contact person
GM - someone who keeps in touch, checks in on person on suspension, an email where the general manager says that Michelle will continue as contact person

Fifer : listen the only support wee Sondie needed wis a safe place to change her claes. fucks sake min

I browsed them all

Is your screen completely blank or does it have any icons on it?

She is a grown adult with a highly paid and responsible position. She is also responsibile for examining he own position and not going along with group think. The nonsense she has come out with - knowing full well that it is nonsense.

From TT

GM (continues) I explained that once she returned to work, she wouldn't need a contact person.
JR - now July, 'urgent media inquiry' refers to a new allegation about breach of confidentiality from Sandra Rayner, head of Work Force Resourcing and Relations.
(SR) says we need to take an early intervention approach and remind SP of need to maintain confidentiality during an active i/x
GM - press coverage, didnt name doctor or nurse, but seemed that media had info on internal i/x, we needed to remind people of breaches of confidentiality

Fifer : wid be a complete brasser if the courier got wind of what an erse we were making o this, ken?

Just correcting myself as Neale was an MP, not an MSP. (From 2019 to 2024)