NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #27

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions wereFri provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22
Thread 23: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5285690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-23
Thread 24: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5301295-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-24
Thread 25: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5318518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-25
Thread 26: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5335861-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-26

JR seems to enjoy losing as long as she gets to say she was involved in landmark rulings of one sort or another 🤣 Surprising that the instructions for these cases keep coming and the clients don’t seem at all concerned…

That makes a lot of sense. JR has acted for several respondents and in doing so will have gathered a lot of useful knowledge about the arguments from both sides.

And seen Ben Cooper’s and Naomi Cunningham’s winning arguments

Exactly.

Thanks for the new thread, it's going to get busy quite soon!

Thanks for the new thread nauticant. I'm looking forward to this resuming.

I always capitalise towns/cities. I thought everyone did

I'd guess NHS have been desperate to settle this, and Sandie has refused unless NHS concede they were wrong which NHS unwilling to admit. Or NHS wanted a confidentiality clause which she's refused to agree to

Settlement offers are usually made without admission of fault, and often with requirement of confidentiality about precise terms

If her tribunal application seeks X, Y and Z, and NHS offer that, she'd be found liable in subsequent costs as tribunal would be unnecessary but otherwise No she's not obliged to accept any offer

How DARE these public bodies use OUR money on defending people whose mental illness requires women to give up their rights?

How DARE they spend our money, which should be spent on the services for US, not staffed up against the wall to defend the indefensible.

I've got such a busy week ahead of me, am going to catching up on proceedings here,so thanks in advance for the commentary. Will be sad to miss NC’s excellent cross examination.

The first letter yes, the whole word no. It's London not LONDON, Paris not PARIS.

Capitalising the whole word makes it look like an acronym. Hmmm. Fucking Imbecilic Fife Executive?

Broadly yes, but she can also be held liable for Fife's costs if they make an offer that the tribunal considers to be reasonable even if it doesn't meet everything she wants.

Fucking Idiots Flailing Embarrassingly

placemarking, have NC since previous threads. Do we know who will be in 'the hot seat' this week? Also how many days/weeks will it take?

So when does it start?

Oh I hadn't seen that. I thought you meant Fife not FIFE. I wasn't paying attention and hadn't seen the post you were referring to

Both perfect!

I was thinking more like FAFO

Fudge Inclusion Fuck Equality

Hats off to Nauticant!

So how will the forthcoming trial work, given that chunks of paperwork were AWOL? Does NC have the opportunity to re-examine witnesses or does she take the line “well I would have asked witness X this if your hospital had told us about Y”?

Thank you to anybody who is giving up their time to listen in or tweet.

It is important to remember that “it was Christmas”, but I’m not sure whether any bins were damaged.

In this case the claimant is a trans person and the respondents (defendants) are the Environment Agency/DEFRA and Andreas Mueller. The EA/DEFRA and Andreas are defending SEEN and being attacked for being gender critical.

They have merged two cases which are very similar. As a pp said there will be an increase in cases from trans employees claiming discrimination as there is a rebalancing following the SC judgement. This time the public sector employer is using public funds to defend SEEN and gender critical staff.

Fuck Iroond Find Ewt

Thanks @nauticant for the new thread. Doesn't it seen like an aeon since the first part of this case. I remember rushing home from work every day and spending hours catching up (and I'm a very fast reader!), astounded at what was happening - the amazing fundraiser in memory of Sandie's Dad - the preposterous statements made by Dr U. I'm buckling up for another go on that rollercoaster 🎢 and keeping fingers, toes and all crossed for Sandie.

Thanks @nauticant .
Rooting for Sandie.
Got a busy week ahead but will read along to catch up when I can.

Has anyone had access confirmed yet? I've applied by email but not had anything back other than a confirmation of receipt email.