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Original poster

NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #27

1000 replies

nauticant · 13/07/2025 08:26

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions wereFri provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

OP posts:

Thread gallery

rebmacesrevda · 16/07/2025 12:18

ChimpanzeeThatMonkeyNews · 16/07/2025 12:17

Polishing her Rainbow Lanyard, I reckon.

Show quote history

And laminating pronoun badges

SirChenjins · 16/07/2025 12:19

Justkeepingplatesspinning · 16/07/2025 12:18

If there was one policy for everything for the whole of Scottish NHS it would help consistency and reduce confusion when moving jobs etc. It would also mean many fewer highly paid jobs to create such policy in all the different health boards.

Show quote history

Too many different local structures, roles, services etc to allow for that across 14 territorial boards and 8 special boards

Pinknotpurple · 16/07/2025 12:20

So from TT she understood that GC views must be respected, but whst does she think that means because the way they all behaved shows no respect for Sandie's views whatsoever

PinkDD · 16/07/2025 12:20

yes but surely you only need one framework document with provision for local practices?

Transness isn't a local practice that is more applicable in fife than Oban, surely?

ETA: surely the whole point of Once For Scotland [someone on Twitter asked if their "n" key wasn't working...] is to have blanket policies that could be slightly tweaked where necessary? that is what the HR should cover (EDI would be part of HR in that case)

It would greatly reduce costs.

BettyBooper · 16/07/2025 12:20

From TT

IB - that's not the working group
JR - what's that about
IB - it's about the patient policy
JR - what are you saying in email
IB - that it was about patient policy, I had input from Janet, and would circulate for wider comment, mentioned that we were waiting for OfS policy
JR - any further involvement in these matters
IB - only working group
JR - who were in working group
IB - <a number of names, not all complete>
JR - what did the group do
IB - it was about scoping, could we have a single policy on trans issues, I'd been looking at the patient

BezMills · 16/07/2025 12:21

Her memory is so good when recalling how she specifically mentioned how important it was to respect GC opinions, bloody stroke of luck there!

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 16/07/2025 12:21

Apart from the obvious unfairness to Sandie how much money has been wasted on this. How many people have had to wait for treatment because of the hundreds of thousands wasted.

Misguided “kindness” has potentially impacted people’s physical health.

SlackJawedDisbeliefXY · 16/07/2025 12:21

Pinknotpurple · 16/07/2025 12:20

So from TT she understood that GC views must be respected, but whst does she think that means because the way they all behaved shows no respect for Sandie's views whatsoever

It would be good to see an example of something that IB has published in support of GC views

Boiledbeetle · 16/07/2025 12:21

Lunch
1.20 back

murasaki · 16/07/2025 12:22

BezMills · 16/07/2025 12:21

Her memory is so good when recalling how she specifically mentioned how important it was to respect GC opinions, bloody stroke of luck there!

As in all these tribunals, selective memory is a feature not a bug.

spannasaurus · 16/07/2025 12:22

Pinknotpurple · 16/07/2025 12:20

So from TT she understood that GC views must be respected, but whst does she think that means because the way they all behaved shows no respect for Sandie's views whatsoever

Maybe she means respected as in I respect that people can have GC beliefs as long as they don't actually tell anyone about them

MyAmpleSheep · 16/07/2025 12:22

BezMills · 16/07/2025 12:21

Her memory is so good when recalling how she specifically mentioned how important it was to respect GC opinions, bloody stroke of luck there!

I will be looking out for this to be tested on cross examination.

BettyBooper · 16/07/2025 12:23

From TT

IB - it was about scoping, could we have a single policy on trans issues, I'd been looking at the patient policy.

JR - what happened next
IB - they were going to search for other policies, I believe that's when these other policies were obtained
JR - and what happened
IB - we decided that it was a rapidly evolving area and climate, and the OfS policy was coming soon
JR - was that policy ever soft launched
IB - it was used informally, we did not adopt because we were navigating the balance of rights in our circumstances
JR - was it confirmed
IB - it was confirmed only for purposes of soft launch.
JR - subsequently confirmed?

Boiledbeetle · 16/07/2025 12:23

That was a mess and she was being questioned by her side.

Naomi is going to be fun after lunch.

Lolapusht · 16/07/2025 12:23

Once for Scotland Policy Info

Haven’t read it yet. Looks really interesting 🤨

NHSSCOTLAND 'ONCE FOR SCOTLAND' WORKFORCE POLICIES PROGRAMME — NHS Scotland Staff Governance

Home

https://www.staffgovernance.scot.nhs.uk/partnership/nhsscotland-once-for-scotland-workforce-policies-programme

Waitwhat23 · 16/07/2025 12:23

SlackJawedDisbeliefXY · 16/07/2025 12:18

Lots of can't recalls but memory appears good on this point

IB - I mentioned that GC beliefs needed to be respected , but that NHS staff need to act with care and compassion

I don't believe for a second that she actually said that tbh. More likely 'ooh, poor Dr Upton! Don't worry, we'll punish that nasty lady for you!'

Pinknotpurple · 16/07/2025 12:23

SlackJawedDisbeliefXY · 16/07/2025 12:21

It would be good to see an example of something that IB has published in support of GC views

Show quote history

Yes, wouldn't that be fascinating!😄

SternlyMatthews · 16/07/2025 12:23

viques · 16/07/2025 12:18

Shame. Should be Upton getting the reflective practice discussion, but would probably reframe it as “ the look at me, and tell me which colour scrubs suit my colouring best” discussion.

Show quote history

It wasnt his disciplinary. The reflection practice is for SP. See last sentence:
"As this matter relates to an individual member of staff..."

BettyBooper · 16/07/2025 12:24

From TT

IB - it was subsequently not confirmed because of this tribunal, it has been withdrawn for now.
JR - no more questions
J - NC, do you want to take lunch now or start your x-exam?
NC - stenographers have been going for more than an hour, they are do a break, lets take lunch.

MarieDeGournay · 16/07/2025 12:25

from TT
JR - was that policy ever soft launched
IB - it was used informally, we did not adopt because we were navigating the balance of rights in our circumstances

'navigating the balance of rights in our circumstances'
' I mentioned that GC beliefs needed to be respected'

have we underestimated IB?

WhatAMessWales · 16/07/2025 12:25

I know it's very frustrating for those who didn't get access and wanted it, but credit to the courts service for having come up with a solution to the key problems last time. The interface is easier to understand (clear 'Observer' option), they're only letting observers in with video and sound off and if their screen names match what they registered with. I've dropped off the call several times due to internet and also accidentally due to fat thumbs (I'm on my phone) and I've been readmitted very promptly. So appreciation to the clerks - this must be quite a stressful day for them too.

rebmacesrevda · 16/07/2025 12:25

I don't reckon IB had even heard of GC views before this tribunal kicked off

Original poster

nauticant · 16/07/2025 12:25

Continuation thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5374630-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-28

No need to add posts thanking me, just add a reaction to the OP on thread #28 if you're minded to do that.

OP posts:

ArabellaScott · 16/07/2025 12:26

BezMills · 16/07/2025 12:21

Her memory is so good when recalling how she specifically mentioned how important it was to respect GC opinions, bloody stroke of luck there!

Yes. I find it surprising.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2025 12:27

yay glad it’s lunch now, I can catch up on the bus and then follow here and TT when I get home

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