NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #21

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It is planned that it will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20

https://x.com/holyroodsources/status/1891851822278590711?s=46&t=ZX_bLozRqm8etdGICMcAvA

Scottish Labour ‘Knowing what we know now we wouldn’t have the GRR Bill’. 🙄

Missed out the word ‘supported’ - oops!

@RovingPublicEnquiry You've articulated beautifully the thoughts I've been trying to synthesise in my head. How do I know Upton is a man? Sure, his height, his voice, his mannerisms, his attitude, the list goes on on. But first and foremost, instinct. I don't need to think about it; my lizard brain knows he's a man before my thinking brain even asks the question.

Cracking username too. Welcome to the coven!

Aw, there there. Shame there wasn’t anyone around telling you this would be exactly what would happen before you supported it.

Pffft. Please.

edit to add: and this is without the damn thing having been allowed to pass.

My X algorithms no longer pick up Robin. I assumed that there had been a flounce across to Bluesky.

TV/Radio seemed to favour Peter Tatchell of late (though, now I am thinking about it, I don't recall hearing either being interviewed recently).

(Placemarking on thread 21)

At another point in that same exchange, R M W also says (to broonjunior) "Context, dear boy, context" as an attempt at a patronising putdown. Which is something I cannot imagine any woman ever saying.

I have tried. I've said it myself and cringed myself into a prolapse; I've tried to imagine Mrs Thatcher saying it and I can't. I've tried to imagine the butchest lesbians I know saying it, and the most ambitious, power-hungry women and the oldest and poshest women I know. I genuinely can't imagine any woman, EVER, using or trying to use that as a putdown.

It's not just me, is it?

I tried to put my favourite GIF of Magdalena, but I couldn’t make it work

it’s the one that says

Oh fuck off you wanker.

God, she was brilliant.

So if a man desires to be in a changing room with half-naked, vulnerable women who don't want him there, he's the one we have to let in, and look at/not look at as his whim ordains.

Because male desire must be centred and rewarded, always, everywhere.

I'm falling my behind again.

That person is the least convincing example of an allegedly female spirit occupying a male body that ever existed.

(Obviously it wouldn't matter if they were full of stereotypical mannerisms either)

If we had used our brains and listened to what the public were saying even just a little bit, instead of actively causing them bigots, we wouldn't have the GRR Bill.

I get annoyed by this attitude of 'we couldn't possibly have foreseen' narrative that politicians come out with.

Apart from the 'We fucking told you!' issue, he also appears to think that what was mentioned in the transcript of the debate supercedes what is actually in the act.

How stupid is he?

Could the NHS really be thinking £££.
Cheaper and less of a logical nightmare if every ward and every room on the is mixed sex?

TBH I don't believe men, particularly older men would want women to see them getting changed or be in the next bed to strange women.

Can't imagine the unions will be too happy with Labour for this change of heart. I guess its better late than never but clearly becuase they can see its a potential vote loser. The polls in Scotland show the SNP are likely to win the Holyrood election...again...will we never be free of them? How can Scottish voters, after everything the SNP fuck up, still vote for them? And even the Greens could gain more seats I mean WTF Scotland??

OMG what hypocrites, did they not listen to a single word of evidence in the committees. They were told time and again.

FFS. They were told there was a risk that something like this might happen, they ignored women's concerns.

What ever happens in sandies case, it's blown this whole issue wide open.

Now there needs to be a wholesale review to establish the extent of gender ideology across public services, correct the poor and/or illegal advice and policy that is in place and review the need for, scope of, and qualifications of DEI posts.

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/whats-point-holyrood-fury-cowardly-34702533#source=breaking-news

Are there any Scottish Labour MSPs, who wouldn't agree with the new line?

Logically, if John Swinney is responsible for sorting out NHS Fife, Starmer must be responsible for sorting out all the misinformation that is being spread in England.

How far can they argue that this is all the fault of the SNP without forcing some kind of comment from the UK Government?

Really need that WTF face for that one!

Maybe they should have listened, two ears for listening, one big mouth gets you into a lot of bother!

Yup. Just as Starmer's labour were told that this would be the outcome. Instead they all chose to listen and pander to Stonewall's sad men about how mean women and girls are in not letting them into our changing rooms.

So now we have the depressing scenario of most labour politicians remaining silent because as soon as they speak, they'll be reminded of all the utter nonsense they've pronounced about women, penises etc while (yet again) abandoning safeguarding children in favour of dodgy males.

It’s enough to make you weep! 😤

Totally agree Mrs Sandie Peggie is going down in the history books 📚 All against Dr Up t no good.

Sandie but what a heroine with Ovaries of pure Iron.

@RovingPublicInquiry - I just want to thank you for your post on pg 40 of the previous thread. You've articulated a lot of what I haven't been able to especially when I am discussing with friends.

I thought this was brilliant and I will be leaning on it for real world discussions.
Thank you

To me, one of the most insane pieces in all this is how we are told that "if you see someone's sex you are a bigot" (as a PP put it very succinctly many threads ago). Being able to tell, almost immediately, who we can and cannot reproduce with is one of our most fundamental instinctual abilities, honed by millions of years of evolution and vital to the survival of our species. Declaring that this is bigoted is like saying being thirsty is bigoted. Or squinting at a bright light. We cannot turn this ability off, any more than we could turn off our ability to recognize the difference between hot and cold.

There is a Q&A with NC this Thursday! Obviously can't cover this case but suspect will be very interesting

https://knowingius.org/p/q-and-a-with-naomi-cunningham

Have the MSPs claiming to have seen the light re: biological sex twigged that, pending the judgement in the For Women Scotland case and regardless of the Scottish GRR bill, additional legislation may be needed to protect single sex spaces?

The judgement could be quite soon. I really want to know whether they have through all the implications of what they are saying.