NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #21

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It is planned that it will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20

Wouldn’t it have fallen to Isla Bumba to do the equality assessment?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c78ed8v0g8lo

Sorry about that, no idea what went wrong with the first link.

@MorrisZapp & @SirChenjins

Well if it walks like a duck ……

Exactly this. It's clear that they don't want to have more information than just what was provided to them by Upton. They will have a suspicion that if they were to find out more, it might undermine Upton's account. I'd say they would be prudent to have such a suspicion. Therefore, no delving into whether there's hard evidence to stand up Upton's account.

Now they must be feeling uncomfortable--the baleful eye of the Baroness is upon them!

It does fall under Isla Bumba's remit so she (and likely her manager) are really in trouble. They'll be the fall guys (gals?) for sure.

It is highly unlikely he will be done for perjury, I'm afraid. To get a conviction, you would have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that he knew he was lying. If he honestly believed what he was saying, that is not perjury. This is one of the reasons why perjury cases are rare. Perjury cases based on evidence given in civil cases such as this are even rarer.

Oh THAT Baroness! I thought you meant Baroness Nicholson of the Wonderful Letters
You can never have too many sensible Baroness-es on your side, eh?

ScotGov have allowed (pushed for even) this ideology to permeate the public sector for so long that it’s well and truly steeped in it. Going by how young she seems, people like IB were taught at Uni (or possibly even school ) that the Emperor had clothes and bloody good ones at that. It’s like growing up in a cult. And then she finds NHS Fife no different when she arrives… Who would question it in their position? They’ll be the fall guys, sure - but this is a systemic issue which comes from the very top. And I don’t even mean just ScotGov. This business is worldwide…

I think they really do believe they’re in the right, though… No?

I'm sure that is so true. And so sad.

What bothers me, too, is this business of charities/third sector orgs being denied funding unless they sign up to genderism… Can anyone point me in the direction of any challenges/campaigns on this ?

PS I‘ll pipe down a bit now! I’m just so enraged by it all.

This news item isn't about trans but it is about a woman attacked by a rapist in a hospital toilet.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ceqjn8770wlo

Theres 3 outcomes to his testimony here:

1. he should be done for perjury because everyone knows, including him, that he’s a biological male
2. he should be struck off as everyone knows, except him, that he’s a biological male
3. He is lauded as some sort of second coming - he has reached a cosmic consciousness level of all knowingness and everything ever written needs to be rewritten according to this new Upton Age of Enlightenment

edit: reality is shown in the horrible depressing article my light-hearted post has followed

💯

Psychiatrists used to have to be able to tell who was genuinely deluded and who was just pretending. Unfortunately 'brainwashed into a cult' seems to fall into an in-between grey area.

SirChenjins · Today 17:48

... he's the pin-up boy for the TRAs at the moment. Meanwhile, the high heid yins at NHS Fife must be quacking in their boots - it's really not looking good for them.

Beaten to it, I was going to suggest that they're getting their ducks in a row.

Anyway, I hope they are all crapping themselves and experiencing insomnia, as a result of their actions.

Let me amplify that the Judgment of the ET can not in law be incompatible with the position advanced by the EHRC. NC and the team have played this out well, and the woeful position adopted by NHSFife will be undermined to the point they will be begging SP to settle. My perception is that the woman is not for turning. They took her on, and now they will reap the consequences which will be damning politically. This will strike a grievous blow for women's rights against the TRA's, reasserting the right of a female to privacy from cos-playing men.

one can only imagine the WA group of Maya, Helen, Nicole et all being on fire tonight...

For those who can access Twixter, is anyone having a look at what TRAs are saying, if anything? Maybe they are struck dumb or something.

Some are trying to argue that the EA overrides the 1992 regulations or something like that.

JKR hasn't commented on the EHRC letter as yet so I still suspect she is funding Sandie's costs either in part or in full.

Seems like they've been noticeably quieter on all the FWR threads over the last couple of weeks, not just this one.

I would love mental health professionals to watch his testimony and get their view on it. It was jaw dropping reading it on here. I must admit checking it on Tribunal Tweets as I thought surely no doctor would be saying such things?!

I did notice that there weren't (m)any dissenting voices alright. I wonder if they are building a head of steam for something.

I also hope I haven't put a hex on it by hinting that things appear to be quiet on that front!