NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #21

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It is planned that it will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20

There’s been an outbreak of wtf in doctor land.

I agree with this. And perhaps I should apologise to all you women for sometimes finding breasts a turn on ...

🤦🏻‍♀️ mind bleach please

I’m content that NI numbers and NHS numbers are kept separate thank you.

I have no wish for all my health details to be on the same record as my NI record, which has employment details (and quite a few tax details), and is shared with whatever government departments expect to be allowed to access it - the DWP, HMRC, home office, Justice Department, MI5 etc. It would be only a few steps way from the kind of records the East German Stasi kept on every citizen.

Let's hope the Webberleys don't hear about this!!!

Or dr harrop!!

Annabel Scholey was the actress shagged on Concorde in Rivals

https://www.womenpolicycentre.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/WPCPolicyyBriefRepealltheGRAA_17022025.pdf

1. Arguments for repeal

Paragraph 5, the GRA impacts DBS checks....

Excellent document

I’m going to go out on a limb here and suggest that the overlap between men who go searching for trxxxy porn and men who post on a MN feminism board might be pretty slim, in more ways than one 😜

Does this mean that doctors could change this twice, e.g. M -> F -> M, and both have their disciplinary records wiped and record their actual sex on the register?

I'm, sure they can and will and It would be well worth the minor hassle to do it.

Even if someone suspected their motives they dare not say so.

'Protected Caste'

A LangCleg quote I have seen posted a lot on Twitter recently.

She talks specifically about children here but the 'sacred caste' aspect holds true in relation to harm done to women also.

This has got me wondering about other professional regulators. Does a solicitor with a disciplinary record acquire a new number along with their new 'gender'? And a lovely clean slate?

Edited for spag.

https://telegraph.co.uk/gift/54960354738dc9fc

Wes Streeting speaks out on the issue

As a 6' and definitely odd bloke, I'll try to avoid causing that situation.

I'm, sure they can [ change their gender] and will and It would be well worth the minor hassle to do it.
Even if someone suspected their motives they dare not say so.

A small activist group could have some fun with this. Insist that they ID as the opposite "gender" and as soon as the record changes, change back to the original "gender" and keep doing it. It might seem vexatious but it might just make the GMC buck their ideas up.

Yes!
Go Wes!

The GMC are not exactly covering them with glory at the moment. I started a thread in AIBU about their allowing a doctor to continue practising - it’s a really awful case.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5277031-aibu-to-think-the-general-medical-council-is-not-fit-for-purpose?reply=142263065

@JacopoHe removed the ovaries of a 17year old without consent? (Amongst many other terrible deeds). And still working. That's such a frightening thing to read.

Oh wow - that link led to an Independent article which is also pretty shocking - findings included:

• Between 2018 and 2024, 11 doctors were accused of possessing indecent images of children but no interim orders were made
• Over the same period, 261 doctors faced no restrictions despite allegations of physical assault
• In 2018, one doctor accused of murder had no restrictions placed on their ability to practise
• A doctor found to have sexually assaulted colleagues was able to practise as long as he informed the GMC of his job movements

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/doctors-nurses-sexual-assault-b2589819.html

No wonder they didn't bat an eye at DU's antics and desire to be a biological woman. This articled suggests that the GMC wouldn't have bothered even if he'd murdered someone?!

And the NMC are described as "toxic and dysfunctional culture at “every level”"

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/nursing-and-midwifery-council-review-nhs-nurses-abuse-b2576003.html

Yes.
He currently works at Southend Hospital. There is a petition calling for him to be stopped.
Petition:
www.change.org/p/revoke-the-medical-license-of-dr-ali-shokouh-amiri-for-sexual-misconduct?source_location=search

Was it the NMC who had to cancel their conference a few years ago because they couldn’t keep delegates safe from predatory men who were members?

they didn’t deal with the men, they cancelled the whole thing instead.

Interesting follow up to the John Swinney questions reported up thread:
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24951546.wont-john-swinney-address-sandie-peggie-drama/

“Presumably, he hadn’t been briefed that just an hour prior to FMQs, his deputy Kate Forbes sat down with The Herald, where she “unequivocally” backed protecting single-sex spaces”

It will be interesting to see how this develops…

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/02/20/wes-streeting-condemns-wiping-of-trans-doctors-records/