NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #21

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It is planned that it will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20

They've all done their best to hide the fact that Upton is a big bloke. Not just a lot taller than the average woman, but taller than average for a man.

And the other side is also making an application about the document disclosure order - to reduce its scope.

Which reminds me! In the movie of all this, people kept suggesting tiny little delicate actors for Upton - Timothee Chalamet and Andrew Garfield. We need someone with heft - like one of the Hemsworth brothers, but less pretty. Chris Pratt?

The 'evidence-based reasons must be provided' thing is making my research finger itch. I'm rather tempted to compile an open-access dossier of evidence-based reasons that anyone can use.

It would be a large bundle.

My chosen form of rebellion at school was excessive compliance - any teacher setting homework I considered to be ridiculous would get an avalanche of technically correct but somewhat subverted information in response. 'Write 2 pages imagining you're a Chinese subsistence farmer.' Response - a page and a half of.complaints about crop failure, and half a page of Mao's Red Book. In Mandarin. 'List all the species of buttercup.' Response - a list of 240 species, containing 4.repeats - which weren't spotted. 'Write a rhyming poem about Exodus.' Two solid sides of A4 of the worst possible doggerel. They want evidence of reasons? I could have fun with that.

Chris Pratt is a little old for the part. However, his brother in law Patrick Schwarzenegger (yes, son of...) is the right age, at 31, and 6 ft tall.

The first person I thought of was Greg Davies. Tall and built like a brick shit house.

I can't quite completely go with the idea as I rather fancy Greg and the idea of fancying Upton makes me feel nauseous but he certainly would fit the bill more than a wee, slender thing.

Chris Pratt is a good call. Please don't ruin Chris Hemsworth for me!

Yikes. I'm 4'11.

I'd be shivering me timbers if a 6' odd bloke was in the changing rooms with me.

For the pronoun haters, I have to admit that I quite like them in emails. Working multinationally over email someones sex can be difficult to tell by name alone. However, that's useful for a very different context!

My company does have a couple of transwomen that I'm aware of but they are nothing like DU. They are approachable, express that they prefer she/her/girl name, but take no offence at he/him/male name. i.e. they have no belief that they are women. There is however a fairly militant non binary character who I wouldn't interact with for fear of every comment being taken as a personal affront to their gender ideology. 🙄

Has this been posted?

BREAKING: @Telegraph reveals how General Medical Council "wipes" the disciplinary records of doctors that transition

@HJoyceGender: "There are extremely serious implications for the GMC issuing new numbers – essentially new identities – to 62 doctors"

x.com/sexmattersorg/status/1892616665419886671?s=46&t=A2fpFNgDRyXF2d6ye97wEA

Sorry I don't have a share or archive link

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/02/20/doctors-change-gender-scrub-records/

This is wholly unsurprising as they're entirely captured.

I've just been to a gyne appointment at my local NHS hospital.

It's the first time I've been back since the birth of my son, in Covid lockdown.

One set of toilets has been changed into unisex, single occupancy rooms.

But,

I haven't seen a single rainbow lanyard, all staff had a blue hospital lanyard (rainbows were everywhere in 2020).

All of the staff in the department were observable as females (Yes. I can tell).

The consultant was wonderfully kind and allowed me to take things at my own pace, as I'd previously disclosed trauma. The nurse held my hand and chatted to me throughout the proceedure. I was given options over treatment, and felt listened to.

That is what I want from our NHS.

AND, when I went to the Friends shop by the main entrance, they had the finest display of Tunnocks I've EVER seen (paging @Boiledbeetle )

Perhaps the Tunnocks display is a sign that the Friends are peaked?

I think we need a selection of Tunnocks-themed badges for the be-peaked, so we can identify each other, like the dinos and the Suffragette colours.

be-peaked 😂

https://telegraph.co.uk/gift/8a0ffb3bfd8d25d0

Share token version.

It came up during the Tribunal, and the Times covered it, but the Telegraph has spelt it out more clearly.

I'd like to see Matt Smith play DU, he's 5′ 11½″ and has just the right chin for the part.

DD1 has LD and was treated in hospital last week. She was transferred to the gynae ward at 6 am, and given a side room to make her stay easier. All of the literature on the ward referred to 'women' and there was a photo board at the ward entrance with all of the nursing staff, who were all female.

Now let’s hear it for DBS. Journalists - do your job!

Well. The shop has always been staffed by women of a certain age, friendly but with a steely glint in their eyes.

I mentioned how lovely it was to see such a display of Tunnocks, and one lady said that they sold ever so well. The other said that she had been around the Tunnocks factory, back when you could still book to do that.

I do think it could be a secret bat signal!

I'll be on the lookout now for anyone brandishing a Teacake in public.... members of the Resistance, no doubt.

Dentons is a London law firm. Law firms don't, on the whole, do things unless they either a. expect to make some money from them, or b. have already made some money from them and think there's a chance of making more money from them.

So you'd need to look at their client files to see who might have had an interest in the advice that they were providing. Obviously, we're not going to be able to do that. So, alternatively, who might have had enough money to pay them to do what seems to have been a fair amount of research? That paper is about strategy and planning, not just law.

ENTIRELY SEPARATELY AND NOT LINKED IN ANY WAY Dentons' was named as one of Stonewall's top Diversity Champions (again) in November 2023. I find it interesting that both organisations have a Global diversity arm, as per this webpage here: https://www.dentons.com/en/about-dentons/news-events-and-awards/news/2023/november/dentons-named-stonewall-top-global-employer-2023

As someone with a background in branding and information presentation, I also find it interesting that on that page, not only is the heading for Stonewall information in exactly the same font and colour as the information for Dentons themselves. And that the Stonewall information comes first, and there's more of it.

here you go Tunnocks fans!

https://www.gilliankyle.com/collections/tunnocks-collection?srsltid=AfmBOorOTZ5kPP9cSCNC2tC4sXOejDN_CbqpVrnZIKGKJdbmPAIws57h

Hmmmm. Not fishy at all.