NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #21

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It is planned that it will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20

YY to the conspiracy theorist thing @rebmacesrevda , that's partly why I still check with myself every so often that I'm not being unfair/a bigot/literally violent. I have yet to feel any doubts that I am.

The Lives Of Others is a good German film about the monitoring of citizens by the Stasi. NC was right to quote Orwell at Upton.

One day, when this madness is over, someone will release a documentary on the whole thing and it's going to be wild!

Sorry 😬

I'm currently reading The Women Who Wouldn't Wheesht and even though I've been on the firiges of all this, been on the fwr boards etc, it is still almost an unbelievable plot!

Don't be, what you said made quite a few pieces fall into place. I'd rather they didn't exist but they do, so there you go.

I have images of our species where the women spend their time quietly caring for others and doing the grunt work while the men are out and about being as depraved as they can get away with, and there is worse in their imaginations. It's like we aren't the same species at all.

NAMALT but you know what I mean.

Having said up thread that I suspect NHS Fife will be relieved if they lose, there is still considerable batshittery around. I give you this piece from the once respected Kings Fund. (It was published at the height of the SP court events when we were all trying to keep up).

Trigger warning, may not be suitable reading for people with high blood pressure as contains gems such as this. The public ‘debate’ on trans people’s rights is toxic, fear mongering, and ever-increasingly hostile.

www.kingsfund.org.uk/insight-and-analysis/blogs/trans-people-nhs-debate-evidence

I said iron, because Mrs Thatcher was classed as the Iron Lady.

I was going to use the male expression Balls of Steel but wanted to acknowledge she is a female who don't have 'balls' in the male sense.

But I'll bow to your superior knowledge of the science of metals - Ovaries of Tungsten 😘

Quite shocking how far they have fallen. They are quoting totally discredited figures for rates in attempted suicide in young people and dismissive of the need for actual peer reviewed research to inform evidence based medicine.

I had my cousin and his wife, who live in Fife, over yesterday. She is in her 60s and she was totally on Dr Upton's side, though she did admit she hadn't been following the story properly. She thought it wasn't his fault he's trans and that the nurse had been rude to him......

I must say this surprised me. I'm not saying it is wrong as I can only speak for myself, but it definitely isn't me. Breasts yes, but it is a little context dependent. A woman sunbathing topless doesn't do much for me, for example. An erect penis on its own, no. So the kind of porn you mention is a positive turn off for me. I couldn't watch it at all. I know it must be a turn on for some people or it wouldn't be made, but I find the idea of it being very popular with men quite disturbing.

The connection with Mrs Thatcher hadn't occurred to me. Thanks.

So the kind of porn you mention is a positive turn off for me. I couldn't watch it at all. I know it must be a turn on for some people or it wouldn't be made, but I find the idea of it being very popular with men quite disturbing.

I think a lot of men are bisexual or at least "bi-curious". Plenty aren't, obviously!

Following on from the Kings Fund article, written by a TM at a guess, why is there no recent research? Because no one would be able to get funding for it. Transphobe, transphobe.

What a messy article - it sounds to be from the same script as Isla Bumba's EDI policies were.

Yes, that's the health and social care system in NI's policy in a nutshell - they can do what they like from the moment they decide they're trans, and you mustn't question anything ever.

And still Belfast Health and Social Care Trust was on that recent list of transphobic organisations!

What an absolute disgrace. Well done that woman!

See also "The Dentons Document". I think glinner had a series of posts on his sub stack, of just google it.

Edit to post link

https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/the-dentons-document

Off topic, but I was talking to a friend whose husband has done the characteristic middle-aged thing of shagging his workplace junior, with the excuse that 'I was going through a bad time in my life and you weren't there for me.'

My friend was coping with her mum dying, then her dad dying, then her child's diagnosis with something lifechanging, and menopause on top. His 'bad time' was a reorganisation at work. Why are some men such bloody wusses?

That’s the badger! The law-and-other part of things I was trying to remember. Thank you!

And in England, not so long ago.

www.rollonfriday.com/news-content/transgender-law-graduate-wins-discrimination-claim-against-nhs

Why am I unsurprised there was "crying and shaking" in this story? Not to mention pathological lying, and vexatious litigiousness. I'm detecting a theme...

I was talking the other day with a woman from Chile and she was very firm in her view that, whoever the man is, the significant women in his life are in the role of Mother.

Maybe that's why some men excuse themselves from shagging other women, because they've come to see their wives simply as motherly providers of comfort.

@JustBitetheKnotsOff just out of interest did she stay with him?

Ha, no!

I see 'crying and shaking' as possibly a suppressed rage response - how dare they cross me?!

I've come across it in adults as well as children - I'm not getting what I want, I'd like to hit out at somebody, but I know I shouldn't/that could be counterproductive- I'll 'reframe' it as being upset and get sympathy ..
Tears are often absent.

I wasn't born this cynical I promise, it's lived experience😬