NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #26

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It is planned that it will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access. However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was doubtful whether pubilc access for remote viewing would be reinstated but recent developments (as of mid May) suggest that this might actually become available again.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22
Thread 23: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5285690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-23
Thread 24: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5301295-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-24
Thread 25: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5318518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-25

Just dropping in as it’s July and the ET resumes soon.

But the court case doesn't have any bearing on whether they should release a chlid's medical records to his Mum. She's been trying to get them for ages and they're just not doing it.

And this woman isn't the only patient trying - and failing - to get accountability for alleged medical negligence from NHS fife. There are so many sad stories.

I see from that article that NHS Fife has until 14th July to provide the information on costs. What an interesting pre-hearing appetiser that's going to be just before the case resumes on the 16th.

Edited as I should RTFT first as I was slow to the party

Nelson chose the place name, or Jefferys (the lyricist) chose it?

Apologies for the random question, but I couldn't find an answer online, and wondered if you had info from another source. I have an interest in those people that's entirely unrelated to MN. It feels kind of weird seeing the names crop up here!

I agree that NHS Fife management are incompetent as well as malign.
However I think the annotated document may have been leaked accidentally-on-purpose by someone keen to show just how malign those who are running NHS Fife actually are.

Actually, I can't find any mention of which chose the name.

If the lyricist chose it as a random three syllable name to fit in with the music, that might make more sense, mightn't it?

That was my assumption too. It’s a false flag operation by a closet GC viper embedded in Fife management.

Yeah, that's probably it. 🙂 And it was a time when Scottish / Irish / generalised northern/western culture was dead fashionable. Charles Jefferys was a Londoner who ran a music publishing company in Soho, and he probably just had a knack for clever marketing. 😂

OK, folks, sorry for the digression.

I'd buy that if they accidentally on purpose leaked it ALONG WITH her son's medical records. But not instead of. That's just cruel and when it comes to children Terfs are generally not cruel.

Unless of course they were told to send her something else because there's evidence in the records of her son's medical care that they don't want getting out, and so a put upon member of staff chose the best option in their constrained circumstances. It's a very risky move though - it's a data breach so management could easily get rid of whoever did it claiming gross negligence, which it is.

Whatever the reason, i simply don't think it was an accident. It's an entirely different sort of record than being asked for. Switching up similar patient notes might be an accident, not sending something entirely different altogether and highly controversial.

https://apple.news/AvImnL_gSRGiiALnEXUDgaA

sorry don’t have a share token but the Sunday Times article refers to Carol Potter and the rest of NHS Fife but basically ……

“ Nor has Fife Health Board done the decent thing and apologised to (and compensated) Peggie for suspending her from her job as a nurse of 30 years after she complained about having to share a changing room with a male-bodied transgender medic, Dr Beth Upton. Her employment tribunal resumes on July 16. NHS Fife appears determined to dig itself further into this non-binary hole.

The board is even trying to block public access to the live feed of the hearings and, according to a leaked email, had a hissy fit when the Scottish Information Commissioner, David Hamilton, said it had acted unlawfully in denying requests to reveal the legal bill for the Peggie case. Who are these people? Why are public servants behaving like this? “

public servants wasting tax payers money! Our taxes are likely to go up again in the autumn and NHS Fife is determined to waste as much of our hard earned cash as possible

What a fabulous headline!

”Toiletwars are over let’s flush this nonsense for good”

🤣🤣🤣

Toilet wars are over - there's another better of a headline.

Is Uptons Mother not a minister os something religious?

Going slightly off topic, I note the comments that Church of Scotland have been forced into ensuring Trans use the correct sexed toilets.
Lots of Girl Guides also use CoS halls. Does that mean the venue over rides any policies that GG have?
And Ill add any other groups with trans individuals.
Just thinking of a hypothetical situation.

Sharetoken for the Iain MacWhirter comment in the Times:
https://www.thetimes.com/article/36979bfc-1f9d-4167-b4e6-120dac1f2ad2?shareToken=4aad920b4c6888d9e0aba97e3f4f37ba

Also this in the Times:
https://www.thetimes.com/article/c6261bef-cdcb-448f-8ed4-919bda5b73a2?shareToken=1a0b808ea854184ca69a6a38c5cc22d7

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/d-day-sandie-peggie-nhs-35510384?intsource=ampcontinuereading&intmedium=amp&intcampaign=continuereadingbutton#amp-readmore-target

They don't mince their words!

"This was contrary to Equality Act, and if the illegality of the policy wasn't apparent before then it has now been made 100% crystal clear by the ruling of the UK Supreme Court in April.

Remarkably, the health board – in line with the Scottish Government and many other public sector bodies – is STILL refusing to guarantee single-sex facilities."

I like how the Scottish newspapers are much more brusque with their reporting now. There is none of the sugar coating or ignoring of stories that you get in the English press or BBC. The Scottish press has a clearer understanding of how their readers have been drained by the argument and how readers have no interest in all the trans-imposed lexicon. Scotland’s politicians and public servants (NHS Fife we are looking at you) seem to be spectacularly misreading the public in terms of what they should be focusing on.

Yes, I think so. Quite influential I believe.

Excellent, this is exactly what needs to happen. The press holding this up for accountability.

The establishment are in thrall to an extremist political agenda and prepared to ignore law and the Supreme Court in service of it.

What are they doing in positions of public responsibility? There's only a short window of time left to prove that this belief system is not wholly incompatible with the responsibilities and duties of holding a public role.

I wonder if the TV cameras for the Scottish news (bbc and stv) will be there most days when the tribunal restarts? The public interest gathered pace last time and it’s huge now

I wonder whether that's to do with there being many years of the SNP having a strangehold over many aspects of public life, including speech, and (some of) the newspapers have really embraced being able to report more frankly. And as a result are particularly keen to examine extra critically the most sacred cows of the SNP.

She is a canon in the Church of Scotland. This is an honorary title given to some senior or retired members of the clergy. She trained as a psychotherapist and her PhD studied how men in power bully women.

Irony klaxon!