NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #26

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It is planned that it will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access. However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was doubtful whether pubilc access for remote viewing would be reinstated but recent developments (as of mid May) suggest that this might actually become available again.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22
Thread 23: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5285690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-23
Thread 24: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5301295-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-24
Thread 25: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5318518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-25

Thanks for the new thread @nauticant. Great news that the case will be broadcast. 😁 👏.

Thank you very much for the new thread, nauticant.

Is it usual to publish decisions on requests such as examining the mobile prior to the hearing recommencing? I'm assuming if the judge agrees it'll have to be looked at ready for the restart. If it is examined and it doesn't back up Dr Upton's testimony I assume he'd be in trouble. Not least for having lied even more under oath.

Thank you for the new thread.

If my note is correct it re-starts on Wed July 16th and the last day of evidence is Mon 28th with 2 days for closing arguments/summing up (11 days total).

The judge asked for timetables for the hearing by 2nd Jul latest including which witnesses/order etc.

From TT:
NC - if we are granted our amendment, the R will be given 28 days

Meaning that if Kate Searle is to be named as R3 then that would have to happen at least 28 days prior to the hearing presumably - which is at the very latest 18th June (only 4 weeks away)? She was already to be a witness so will have a statement in the bundle but will need time to prepare any legal rep, additional papers or amend witness statements etc.

If the judge ruled on allowing public access this week, then presumably he has also commented on R3 and the phone. Or might he be taking longer over that? Sorry for the newbie questions but does the court publish a notice about what is happening behind the scenes or do we have to wait until 16th July now?

Thanks for the new thread, @nauticant, the weeks are flying by - July seemed like a very long time away when it was timetabled but will be here before we know it.

Indeed! It won't be long but a lot has happened already, roll on July!

Thanks for the new thread @nauticant , even though it means my hopes of winning the 'what number thread will we be on when it starts back in July' bet are well and truly dashed (I had 25).

I can’t believe it’s taken me 26 threads to spot the pun in the OP’s name. Actually, it wasn’t even me, it was DH, who is as glued to them as I am!
Thanks for the new thread @nauticant. The 2 month countdown starts here.

@Bluebootsgreenboots I was oblivious too! Too innocent, me!

Here we go again - thanks @nauticant

Thanks Nauticant. We really do appreciate your work in keeping the threads going so smoothly.

Thank you Nauticant.
I'm also wishing the summer away impatient for news of Dr U's phone and Dr Searle's status.
I do hope Dr U is shown to have lied in court and is then struck off.

Getting struck off shouldn't be too problematic for him. He can just go back to work under his old GMC registration number. The perks of multiple identities, right?!

Wouldn't being struck off follow him for both his identities as he's the same Dr Upton? (Did he really have 2 GMC numbers?)
Plus the claiming to be female identify is clearly a lie so that should be wiped and the male record struck off? if the situation becomes fair!

I must be thick because I don't get it.

Try saying it in a cockney accent.

Thanks I get it eventually 🤣🤣🤣

The GMC don't record their members' sex, they only record their 'gender'. Yet strangely there seems to be no provision for doctors who don't believe in gender, or those who have a gender other than male or female. Almost as if it's intended to confuse or mislead.

There are two separate entries on the GMC register, and they are not linked. When a doctor changes gender and gets a new number, any disciplinary record does not follow them, because that would be outing, apparently. Upton's old number is inactive, and I was being facetious when I suggested he could revert to it after getting struck off. But who knows?! The system is clearly flawed, but when challenged on it the GMC stood by it.

Edit to add: I checked the register in February, so it's possible it's been changed since then. GMC did say recently that they were going to do away with gender altogether.

thanks nauticant, sterling work again.

The GMC have said they will change things so disciplinaries are still available, when is another matter!

Somehow I missed the judicial review where Susan Evans is trying to protect teenagers from harmful and irreversible medical treatment by challenging the registration by the CQC of Gender Plus Hormone Clinic to provide hormone treatment for teenagers. it may be too late to get this to target but anyone who can pledge a few pounds would give her encouragement.

I am amused at the idea of you (and various other posters, including myself) walking around their house this morning, putting on their best Cockney accent and going 'nnnaaauu taaa caaaant'

(I hadn't got it either. Assumed it was a sea faring thing)

I think Australian might work too.

It's genuis!
But yes I too was thinking something nautical

Thank you for this, I donated a while ago but have planted a few more carrots.

Re naughty c-nt, I think I got it around thread 24, which is centuries. Still, better late than never and all that.

Well I'd understood @nauticant and how it should be pronounced but the person who suggested saying it in a cockney accent has now ruined Mary Poppins for me. Just saying