NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #26

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It is planned that it will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access. However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was doubtful whether pubilc access for remote viewing would be reinstated but recent developments (as of mid May) suggest that this might actually become available again.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22
Thread 23: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5285690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-23
Thread 24: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5301295-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-24
Thread 25: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5318518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-25

The one who was treated so very badly and callously by “Rose” and his handmaidens.

@TheOtherRaven If nurses want nice facilities then they have to earn them by taking off their clothes for men.

Yes, and if women want anything for themselves then they have to ask the men, and accept if the men say no.

Brilliant opinion piece in the express today

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/comment/transgender-dogma-new-witch-trials-35366447?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

Unfortunately not quite on the money about this, though, as Knotty, Loons et al can confirm:

While NHS England has reaffirmed its commitment to providing single-sex spaces for vulnerable women….

Still plenty of work to be done on that front.

Really good article and encouraging that the Scottish local press are becoming more engaged. I hope to see more of this south of the border as the NHS and other institutions are still hopelessly captured.

Not sure what this meant. The NHS Confederation have withdrawn their transgender guidance awaiting the updated EHRC guidance which sounds limp but is massive progress. NHS England I can't say I had heard that - maybe it is referring to Wes Streeting's official who intervened in the Darlington case? Whatever this is an absolute cracker of a piece! I felt relief reading it

Whatever this is an absolute cracker of a piece!

Yes, definitely agree there. I was just thinking of the great work you and your team have been doing, @KnottyAuty, and the devastating state of affairs you’ve uncovered.

Great to see the papers speaking out so clearly, though.

NHS England is on the way out thankfully. www.nhsconfed.org/publications/abolishing-nhs-england-what-you-need-know

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cr4w07k17ygo.amp

"...the nurse who took NHS Fife to a tribunal over a transgender doctor using a female changing room has met MSPs in the Scottish Parliament.

Sandie Peggie had meetings with politicians, including Scottish Conservative leader Russell Findlay, as part of a visit organised by the Sex Matters campaign group.

Findlay said: "It was a privilege to meet Sandie Peggie and to hear a first-hand account of her appalling ordeal.

"It is outrageous that a dedicated NHS nurse's career has been destroyed and her life consumed by a suffocating legal process simply because she stood up for women's rights.

"NHS Fife should stop squandering vast sums of taxpayers' cash on this nonsense and every state agency in Scotland must now respect the law and women's rights."

Part of a wider, fairly neutral article.

@WeMeetInFairIthilien Thanks I couldn't find this thread. I saw it on the news earlier.
Sandie is looking a little less stressed.

This is a gift for non-progressive media. They've seen that the public and the politicians are split on this issue, and so the local press can align itself with the public while using politicans as aunt sallys. This means that the public like the local press more because of the stand taken and like the local press even more because they're showing how the politicians are mendacious and foolish. As a bonus, the story is compelling.

She looks a lot less stressed, doesn't she. It's a lovely picture of her.

There‘s an ad on FB I saw today (sorry I lost the link), about awards for NHS staff in Scotland:

Do you know someone at NHS Fife who goes above and beyond to deliver compassionate, high-quality care?
Whether they’re on the frontline or working tirelessly behind the scenes, now’s the time to recognise their contribution.
Scotland’s Health Awards are open for nominations. Let’s shine a spotlight on the amazing individuals and teams in Fife who make a real difference every day.
Deadline: 17 August
^ Nominate today at: https://brnw.ch/21wTqD6^

Do you know anyone who might be nominated?

The sno showing their true colours again

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/john-swinney-kate-forbes-snub-35414442?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

Oh yes!

I think with the ongoing court case it wouldn’t be suitable for them to meet with Sandie at this time. Afterwards, that would be fine, but not while the case is still live.

I think Kate Forbes would have met with her, so perhaps the 'ongoing court case' is true, or at least they believe it to be true.

They met with NHS Fife though, I believe?

ah yes - NHS Fife. We are almost at that time when it will all kick off again.

For those who need a reminder of who has responsibility on staff governance in Carole Potter’s NHS Fife team :-Sinead Braiden (Equal & Diversity), Janette Keenan (Director of Nursing), Lynn Parsons (Employee Director), David Miller (Director of Workforce), John Kemp (staff health and well being), Rhona Waugh (staff well being), Sandra Raynor (workforce planning and relations), Jenni Jones (culture and well-being).

An awful lot seem to be involved well-being. Wonder if any reached out to her to check on her well being / mental health during the past year or so? Simply as a duty of care, probably not I guess.

What date does it start again?

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It is planned that it will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

Thanks. Sorry. So wrapped up in myself I forgot it was at the top. And, while U remember, thanks @nauticantfor the threads. Huge amount of work.

Nine more days of evidence.

As far as I remember there were only 2 witnesses left to be examined when we paused, and 9 days seems a lot for that. So does this suggest that the 3rd respondent submission was successful, or that a lot came out of the extra disclosures so previous witnesses will need re-examining on that? Or both?

I do hope it's both.

The dates given above came from the end of the first part of the hearing and so do not take into account any subsequent events. This means that what we see happen in July might be somewhat different.

Ah - in that case they must just have been assuming the remaining witnesses would be as excruciatingly slow as Upton.