NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #24

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It is planned that it will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22
Thread 23: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5285690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-23

I remember the days when they actually had staff in the public toilets at the NCP car park in Castle Terrace, Edinburgh. They might have been run by the council.
How things change!
Male and female ones were on a different floor.

And more woes for NHS Fife
https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/secretive-nhs-fife-asked-again-34997443?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

The SDE are like a dog with a bone on this, well done them for continuing to shine a light on the murkyness.

Thanks Hoardasurass

They were originally just covering the SP case like the rest of the Scottish papers only using he/him for dr Upton then some tra took offence and reported the editor to the police for a hate crime (misgendering Upton) and the ispo from that point on the express has gone after every single issue to do with this their like a dog with a bone, they've even got a special trans section where they've collected all the articles about this going back to before the brison fiasco and update it everytime they've got another article. Basically the entire paper seems to have gone from can't everyone just get along to full blown terf almost overnight 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

The Herald also reporting:
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/25065297.sandie-peggie-nhs-fife-pressed-trans-impact-assessment/

archive.is/nFha4

Do you think I’d get anywhere if I asked the Equality and Human Rights Commission to investigate why the Department of Education seems to have no record of Equality Impact Assessments or Risk Assessments for changing secondary school toilet designs? They have told me there have no records.

@Keeptoiletssafe Yes but you may have to push it a bit, think they are gonna be busy

They couldn’t get me off the phone quick enough last time! There’s some good phrases (of theirs) in that article I can use now.

So Scottish journalism has found its feet in protesting against the madness. I am so pleased to hear this. While the Edinburgh elite have gone insane, the Scottish people have not. So many are outraged, but haven’t felt able to speak out or have simply laughed at the ludicrousness of tampons in the men’s but without considering the wider consequences.

I think that's it exactly so many people haven't really thought through the consequences of transwomen are for women and girls.

I think that's where Sandies case plays a huge eye opener, she's an average Scottish woman, and a nurse. Everyone knows a nurse or two in their circles.

The guy just really hates women. He's not (as far as I can tell) had to apologise for mouthing 'fuck you' at a male MSP. Strange that.

Whenever I go past his constituency office, which has a giant, gurning picture of his puss emblazoned in the window, it gives me the creeps.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-56091794.amp

www.heraldscotland.com/news/24330372.minister-sworn-cole-hamilton-responds-revelations/

Wrong thread sorry!

More NHS Fife shenanigans - they’re trying to restrict online access (that means Mumsnet is my guess!) for the next part.

https://x.com/jenkteach/status/1910066312971476998?s=46

“IF YOU HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE - YOU WOULD WANT JUDICIAL TRANSPARENCY!!

An NHS trust is trying to shut the public out of a tribunal about a transgender doctor being allowed to use a female hospital changing room, The Telegraph can reveal.

NHS Fife has asked the judge overseeing the landmark case brought by nurse Sandie Peggie to remove public access to an online livestream of the tribunal’s proceedings.

The board told The Telegraph it wanted to restrict “virtual viewing” of the tribunal so that only journalists could watch it when it restarts in July.”

Interesting tactic. Seems a bit late to close that barn door.

And this move by MBM/Sex Matters/FWS suddenly makes more sense - I guess they got early info on this:

https://x.com/mbmpolicy/status/1909911985090683183?s=46

“Along with @ForWomenScot, @SexMattersOrg and @tribunaltweets, we have written to the CEO of His Majesty's Courts and Tribunals Service (HMCTS) regarding its Cloud Video Platforming (CVP) service.”

Lets see who wins this argument.

Generally the issue wasn't the public per se but the admin on one day suddenly unmuting everyone!

They could reasonably restrict it to the first 100 members of the public to make it more manageable and make sure they have the proper settings...

Probably won't happen and we will be stuck with tribunal tweets...

Alternatively mumsnet newspaper?!

They are specifically trying to get Tribunal Tweets banned.

That won't fly, though, surely?

Open justice = bad publicity.

Tough. Accountability goes with tax payer funding.

And they've got a fucking cheek complaining about delays given that the main delay has been because they didn't bother to disclose documents they had been asked to submit!

Their strike against Tribunal Tweets is a disgrace. TT have been outstanding in ensuring open justice for the general public, not just journalists or those able to attend in person.

They really are running scared if they want to ban Tribunal Tweets.

As usual sunlight is the biggest danger.

Blaming technical difficulties which caused delay?

When messing about with your camera and microphone is a TRA tactic!!

I hope the judge sees through it.

As they said, they can just mute the microphones and not show cameras

They are specifically trying to get Tribunal Tweets banned.

Does anyone know what would be the legal argument a judge may consider for banning TT but allowing other journalists?
The tribunal is not being heard in private and all TT do is report verbatim

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/04/09/nhs-trust-tries-shut-public-out-of-trans-tribunal-scotland/

https://archive.ph/qCZik

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/548e12772aa9d122

In case anyone wants to read the comments.