NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #24

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It is planned that it will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22
Thread 23: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5285690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-23

NHS Fife are suggesting that TT have not been reporting accurately.

Unfortunately, comments don't show if you're not a subscriber. Were there any good ones?

Thanks @TwoLoonsAndASprout I really appreciate this, as I get so frustrated by not being able to see the comments on archive versions (great though it is to have that option).

Comments:

Amit Basu9 HRS AGO
It's worth bearing in mind that the only reason this tribunal is carrying on into July is because both NHS Fife and Beth Upton failed to disclose documents they were legally obliged to make available. Whatever the outcome, the reporting by Tribunal Tweets has been decisive in the court of public opinion. The only conclusion from NHS Fife's actions can be that they are fully aware of how the real time public reporting of Naomi Campbell, KC's, cross examination of the contents remaining documents will appear to the majority of the interested public audience.

AJ Hoppy8 HRS AGO
The only reason there is a tribunal at all is because NHS Fife is acting unlawfully by failing to provide single sex facilities as required by the Equality Act.
I suspect this is why the mendacious Upton is claiming he is a biological female.
The public sector in Scotland acts as through Sturgeon's binned Gender Recognition Bill is law because the SNP is allowing it under the guise of guidance.

Well Bowled Harold9 HRS AGO
It seems to me that the only conceivable reason for this proposed media knobbling is that NHS Fife don’t ike the content.
I followed Tribunal Tweets throughout the hearing and it was breathtaking.
If this goes ahead, it will be nothing short of censorship.

Having said that, I think the “gift” share should allow you to see the comments…?

Well that's very easy for court officials/a judge to verify as it's all in plain public sight.

I would suspect as usual with political gender ideology 'inaccurately' means 'not spun heavily to be biased our way with all the bad bits left out'.

What's that plant of JK Rowlings from Harry Potter that screams and writhes around in sunlight?

Yes, it definitely does!

Doesn't show them for me. I'll try another browser.

Edit - they show up in fire fox!

I mean, if they want inaccurate, there’s always the BBC.

So the NHS legal team have scoured the transcripts to find some inaccuracies???
I hope they’ve done the same for all the newspapers who reported too!

The Telegraph being boggled in a restrained way by trans madness is fun

’At the time, it was not possible for Dr Upton to hold a gender recognition certificate, meaning the medic was legally male. But the doctor claimed during the first stage of the tribunal to be “biologically female”.’

(my bold)

Mandrakes scream 😱 when pulled out the ground and can be fatal 😜

Exactly. The mainstream media conform heavily to the 'reporting guidelines' straight from the GI political lobby, and 'positive messaging' (hiding all the bad bits and anything that might cause negative publicity) is one of the duties within all the badges and rainbow point schemes.

This is in effect trying to make the court conform to the perceived greater power and authority of GI politics, where 'neutrality' and 'honesty' is normally termed as 'hate'.

But absolutely the Tribunal Tweets are in plain public domain and can be easily checked for accuracy.

Do we know if the tribunals are audio (or video) recorded? Because if not it’s “he said, she said” with TT’s reporting, but if it is, as PPs have said, it’s easy (if tedious) to check.

Well at least we know that NHS Fife are aware how bad the tribunal is making them and Dr uptonogood look.

It baffles me that the technology is so bad. I regularly attend events with hundreds of viewers. It's not difficult to mute everyone apart from the panel who are there to speak.

I don’t think the technology is the problem. I think the technology users (in the court) are not used to more than a handful of external viewers (probably journalists, so known faces).

That should not, however, be held against the viewing public who have every right to observe justice being done for themselves, and not filtered through whatever stance the newspapers decide to take

Oh please, please let the judge say, well if you think that, we'll just live stream the whole thing on YouTube

This will be a really important decision with serious implications for the justice and for free speech.

Justice will only be seen as fair if people have the opportunity to see it as fair.

I assume this employment tribunal does not set precedents, but if the tribunal were to rule in favour of NHS Fife there would have to be an appeal. In the same way that the employment judgement against Maya went to appeal.

Someone on Twitter has mused that they perhaps don't want the content of Dr Upton's phone to be revealed. 👀

The Post Office Horizon inquiry was streamed perfectly easily on YouTube and many thousands of us watched it.

They should just live stream it. Allows everyone to watch without the endless interruptions. Also saves their staff from having to be involved.

Exactly. Their desperation for secrecy disguised as impartiality might backfire

The judge could even say tribunal tweets can report in conjunction with a live streaming.

That way people who can't watch the stream can read the tweets. And it would also stop any accusations of misrepresentation.

Perhaps YouTube would even see the value of supporting Open Justice.

US courts regularly stream from all sorts of courts. The audio quality leaves a lot to be desired- but there are some decent wireless microphones for which I would happily contribute to a crowdfund.

I spotted that, too.

Well done Telegraph for spelling it out so plainly. It IS boggling.

Yes, I saw that at the time, something along the lines of "I'm not a robot, therefore I'm biological, and I'm a woman, so I'm a biological woman".
It is extra specially mind boggling that this could come from a doctor.