NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #24

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It is planned that it will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22
Thread 23: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5285690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-23

MarieDeGournay did good work on the last thread suggesting donations to Sex Matters:

Those of us on the Feminism: Sex and gender discussions board on Mumsnet who have been following the Sandie Peggie tribunal have expressed a wish to show our appreciation for the work of Naomi Cunningham, her barrister, and Margaret Gribbon, her solicitor in this case, and also the many other cases that Naomi Cunningham has participated in. We are full of admiration and gratitude for her work, as anybody who has followed our real-time comments on the tribunal will know!

It was decided that the most appropriate way to show our gratitude would be to make donations to a suitable cause - we made donations to the Peggie family's chosen charity in memory of Sandie's late father, and in this case we chose Sex Matters, not only because it does such valuable work which we greatly admire, but because Naomi Cunningham is Chair of your Board of Trustees.

So if you see an uptick in donations, most of them will be from us. Most of us will be donating anonymously, and so we won't be able to add comments, but I think we would all say something along the lines of:

We are making this donation to Sex Matter, as a gesture of admiration and appreciation to Naomi Cunningham, Margaret Gribbon and all the legal team supporting Sandie Peggie in her claim against NHS Fife Health Board.

For anyone following Tribunal Tweets, this is their list of the abbreviations used:
C/SP - Claimant, Sandy Peggie
NC - Naomi Cunningham, C’s barrister
MG - Margaret Gribbons, C’s solicitor
R1/Board - first respondent, Fife Health Board
R2/DU - second respondent, Dr B Upton
JR - Jane Russell, KC, barrister for Rs
AW - Adam Watson, solicitor for Rs
J - Employment Judge Alexander Kemp
ET - Employment Tribunal
P1, P2 - additional panel members
CR - changing room
AE - Accident & emergency department
B&H - bullying and harassment
SocMed - social media
SM - Sex Matters
HR - Human Rights
TW - Transwoman
HI - hate incident
PCP - provision, criteria or practice is a rule/policy/ practice that can put ppl at a disadvantage based on certain characteristics. The term is used in employment law to assess whether an employers actions create different outcomes for employees based on their characteristics.
KS - Kate Searle, DU's supervisor and A&E consultant
ED - Esther Davidson, SP’s line manager
SF - Stuart Fraser, SP’s RCN Rep
AG - Angela Glancy, headed up SP's investigation
IX - investigation
CX or FC - (formal) complaint
DX - disciplinary
FtP - fitness to practice

Witnesses in the hearing so far:

Monday, 3 February 2025
Sandie Peggie

Tuesday, 4 February 2025
Sandie Peggie

Wedneday, 5 February 2025
Sandie Peggie
Maya Forstater
Mr Peggie
Nicole Peggie

Thursday, 6 February 2025
a row about disclosure particularly over BMA documents
Sheila Bell (Sandie Peggie's mum)

Friday, 7 February 2025
very late start, massive row over disclosure, agreed that Beth Upton would start giving evidence on Monday

Monday 10 February 2025
Beth Upton

Tuesday 11 February 2025
Beth Upton
collapse of public access

Wednesday 12 February 2025
Beth Upton

Thursday 13 February 2025
Esther Davidson

Friday 14 February 2025
Esther Davidson

Thank you for the new thread x

Thanks for the new thread.

Hellooooo evwybody,

Thanks nauticant - placemarking here.

Thanks for the new thread.

#24, I ask you! I wonder what number we’ll be up to by the end of July!

The concept that a TIM would lobby to be able to search women intimately is so obviously about getting off that i cannot conceive that the copper would not believe it as well perverted.

As i know that, if i was a copper, i would go out of my way to avoid intimate searches.

You're a star, nauticant.

Curtsey, but not a sarky one.

thanks for the new thread Nauticant!

Yes, many, many thanks, Nauticant!

Thank-you @nauticant

Thank you @nauticant !

place marking, hello all

Heard the dreamies packet shaking and came running. Thanks Naut for your stellar work.

Place marking, thanks for new thread 🙏

Awww Banned, I've just seen your lovely message on thread #23 - I'm glad I went back for a last look around before diving headlong into #24xx

Thanks so much for the new thread, nauticant (or ‘nautical’, as autocarrot always insists you should be called)

Hello everyone and thanks as ever @nauticant

Good morning all and thanks for #24

Thank you for the new thread, @nauticant

Thank you @nauticant you have a full-time job here as a most excellent thread monitor

Blimey - thread #24... Thanks to nauticant for all the admin / linkys, as ever.

I thought I’d probably be lurking for most of the thread but I’ve come back to report the exciting news that I actually just spoke to our local Labour canvassing team (for upcoming May elections) on the doorstep - unusual in itself as they normally never come here.

I said I wanted to raise the issue of single-sex spaces as I know it’s often claimed it never gets mentioned on the doorstep. The woman who rang the bell (maybe 60s/early 70s) squirmed a bit and said she could see how some women might feel uncomfortable with transwomen in the women’s toilets but 'after all, if they really feel they want to be women….?' I politely pointed out they were born male, were male-bodied and despite any modifications would remain male in every cell.

Then the candidate came over and as soon as the subject was broached, immediately said his wife had said the same to him and she wasn’t happy about it at all. We discussed a bit and I mentioned the Peggie case, also womens' sport. We ended with me reiterating I specifically wanted them to note I was raising my concerns about this issue and I had no problem with anyone living as they wished, but infringing the rights and spaces of women wasn’t acceptable. All parted very amicably.

I don’t suppose for a moment it’ll achieve anything but it would be good at least if the woman, who said she ‘hadn’t really thought about it', did actually go away and 'educate herself' (ha). And I spoke up so I feel very chuffed about that.