NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #24

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It is planned that it will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22
Thread 23: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5285690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-23

Ooh I wonder if our audit helped direct that question - that would be exciting!

However the latest script is definitely shifting towards single sex spaces being protected: "He said: "This is a matter for individual health boards who must ensure that they all comply with relevant legislation, including the Equality Act 2010, and responsibility for complying with the requirements of that rests with individual organisations. This act is enforced by the Equality Human Rights Commission which has produced guidance to support separate and single-sex provisions.""

Never heard them say separate and single sex provisions so clearly before in the same sentence as "enforced" - has anyone else?

That's just, "Hey, it's up to those guys to sort it out", though, isn't it?

Also known as - you guys will go under the bus - I'm getting my teflon suit on and telling everyone it is all your fault... I've said all along that the Scottish Government supports single sex spaces even though we were writing guidance for you that confirmed they should be removed and maybe now we wont ever publish it to avoid getting our paws dirty

That's a very clear and direct letter from the EHRC and I've seen a fair few from them back in my working days.

The reply from Potter made me laugh, very pissed off in tone, and far too lengthy. She's really rattled.

And I would have gotten away with it too if it hadn't been for that pesky EHRC.

NHS central legal office have refused to reveal their costs because it might aid SP’s case according to the Herald:

archive.ph/K0rIn

Dear Fife
Newsflash!

Sandie Peggie isn’t going to settle.
Ever.
It’s not about the money.
Even if her mystery backer backs out her Crowdfunder will be fully loaded.
End of broadcast.

It will come out anyway after they are finished losing and paying out the mctaxpayer money to SP and her legal team

That letter from NHS Fife! Bare faced lies! Carol Potter is a brave woman to put her name to that. (I watched the SP tribunal until I was kicked out due to disruption.... so this is from first hand experience of the evidence presented in court).

Just pointing out again that there's no DATIX category for sexual assault but there apparently IS for 'hurt feelings because another member of staff correctly perceives material reality' apparently since Dr U raised a DATIX against SP.

By refusing to answer though they're kinda answering.

Nice to see no mention of full height doors.

Interested to see that it briefly mentions gender neutral for a changing places toilet room. That document is from 2017 which is early for that term to be used in documents from my experience of looking through documents.

This bit in the nappy room made me laugh as I haven’t come across it before (why do I think it was written by a man?): 3.40 Sound attenuation of doors, ceilings and partitions should be considered to prevent the sound of crying children travelling into adjacent spaces.

Pesky baby noises.

As an aside - DS had a hospital appointment recently and was ushered into a room signed as "baby feeding room" or similar where they had the height and weight measures. I pondered on how the Trust probably tick a box to say that room exists and the service is available. But in practice it is not available. I find this really annoying. If it is not available then just be bloody honest about it!

Who’d of think it. Another day another article. Such a lot of coverage for one small ET. Couldn’t be happening to a nicer bunch of people.

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/secretive-nhs-scotland-refuse-reveal-34986253.amp

Who’d of think it. Another day another article. Such a lot of coverage for one small ET. Couldn’t be happening to a nicer bunch of people.

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/secretive-nhs-scotland-refuse-reveal-34986253.amp

https://x.com/SorelleArduino/status/1907858050641199105

Here's a fun fact: the boss of Grant Buttars, who's one of the stars of this tribunal, is none other than the dad of Dr 'Beth' Upton.

I think the 'this tribunal' mentioned in the Tweet isn't this tribunal, but the UCU/AHF film one.

So many to keep track of. NC must be exhausted - she seems to be doing all of them at the moment.

And the illustrious leader of the lib dems has spoken lady know your place behind men because having a universal ban on men in women's single sex spaces is dangerous, he doesn't say for whom, but we can all guess and is unenforceable apparently
https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/dangerous-ban-trans-women-female-34990404?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

Lib Dems reading the room on this. Not.

Numpties.

Does he need the toilets to be 'policed' to prevent him from using the woman's toilets at work?

Apparently so!

Well he’s entitled to his opinion. However the voting public may take a different view. If he’s going with gender self ID and against independence I’m not sure how popular a ticket thats going to be in that part of the world 🤣

WaterThyme · Yesterday 07:15

It absolutely IS in the public interest to release the figures on what they've spent, defending the indefensible.

This rubbish about 'policing' toilets etc is the biggest load of tosh ever. Do people really imagine this is some kind of gotcha? Toilets didn't need policing, generally speaking, for a hundred years, until a decade or two ago. Until a cohort of men were encouraged to enter women's spaces. And unsurprisingly, they took advantage.

Why do we have a gap under public toilet doors? For health and safety
Why do we get rid of the gap when toilets are mixed sex? For privacy
What are we getting rid of by doing that? Health and Safety

100% this!

I do wonder if he hears himself. No you can’t come in. I’m coming in anyway! Really doesn’t paint certain groups in a good light.