NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #25

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It is planned that it will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access. However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22
Thread 23: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5285690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-23
Thread 24: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5301295-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-24

I think they can probably defend their changing rooms policy up to 16 April (SC), as guidance fom the EHRC used to recommend that approach.
**

Would they though?
The Health and Safety legislation from 1992 mandates single sex changing rooms in this case. TransActivism has only become a thing in the last 20 years, so there would have been a period of established single sex usage.

They might have an argument that a man with a GRC qualifies, but there is enough evidence to show that Upton could not have had a GRC at the time, so they would know he didn't qualify. But IANAL.

It's not entirely relevant but when a relative qualified as a Dr about 15 years ago, I am sure that the records said Man or Woman, and not Male or Female.

😡

it’s rule by fear and intimidation.

I wonder when the case will be decided? Will be very relevant to all these organisations claiming that they can't do anything until they get guidance from EHRC.

Iirc they were actually in the process of putting Sandie through an internal investigation as well.
This has been put on hold while the court case is ongoing, but it's something else they were and are putting her through.

Just dropped:

Humiliated SNP Government waited till AFTER Sandie Peggie tribunal to ask NHS Fife whether they could have resolved it another way
Exclusive: New documents reveal details about the Scottish Government's botched handling of the Sandie Peggie employment tribunal, with officials only requesting details from the health board more than a week after the hearings were over
https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/humiliated-snp-government-waited-till-35194496

Arse. Elbow.
Que?

“NHS Fife said: "We can confirm that we did not respond formally in writing. However, we did take the opportunity to have a conversation on this matter, as offered in the email dated 17 February 2025."

I’d love to know what was discussed in this call. The fact they didn’t want to put in writing what the advice was pre-hearing & what options they had to resolve the case by other means prior to the hearing is noted.

I’m curious how long they can refuse to say how much(public) money has been spent on NHS Fife’s shenanigans? Surely the public purse needs to be accountable to the taxpayers?

Archive version of the SDE:
archive.ph/jFWKv

How interesting that NHS Fife didn't put their answer in writing, preferring to have a 'conversation' instead. That's the sort of thing people do when they don't want a paper trail.

Not that that could possibly be NHS Fife's motive, of course.

Well by then they’d been FOI’d to the max. I was amazed that Scotgov asked in writing -naive!

Unless it was a GC-er who wanted to leave a trail of breadcrumbs…?

Meanwhile elsewhere in MN there is new news about the Darlington nurses. This brought me to tears. Shame on the NHS https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5332492-why-arent-you-getting-changed-man-asks-female-darlington-nurse-this-3-times-in-female-changeroom

I am so FUCKING FURIOUS about this. Heartless, evil cunts.

This is what we're working to stop. We are going to nail them to the fucking walls.

Rumour is NHS Fife have spent the interim period smearing bonio on their paper trail and feeding it to Pongo the black lab

Perhaps they didn’t take any legal advice. Wouldn’t surprise me. They’re all so bloody convinced they’re right.

That article is interesting because it's changing women who were fed up, annoyed, campaigning etc into RAGING and ANGRY.

I don't think any other story has had quite this level of impact.

They got EDI advice. They didn't go to legal.

I won't risk posting a video - dodgy Scottish accent, stereotyping etc etc - but remember that chap in Dad's Army who used to panic and run around saying 'WE'RE ALL DOOMED! DOOMED!'?

That's how I visualise NHS Fife HQ at the moment...

I won't risk posting a video - dodgy Scottish accent...

Erm, John Laurie was Scottish. Renowned for poetry speaking, amongst other things, particularly the work of Burns.

Sorry, derail.

I just found this and thought it was interesting. Laurie was from Dumfries and was a veteran of the Battle of the Somme -

If it had been proper legal advice it would surely be privileged.

I actually meant about going to Tribunal and prospects of success etc - not about the original situation.

Thanks for this - Cher and Wait, I should have written 'potentially' dodgy , as I'm not in a position to judge the authenticity of Scottish accents - the horror of hearing so many 'Oirish' accents has clearly made me over-cautious

This.

This has probably come up before, but I wondered can public funds continue to be used to back cases which do not adhere to the Supreme court rulings?
Surely there must be a point that a claim is made for funds and justification must be given.
As men aren't supposed to use women's facilities (and never were) I don't understand how public funds can still be used by Fife.