NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #24

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It is planned that it will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22
Thread 23: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5285690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-23

IIRC, it was Allison Bailey's case.

ETA - A quick search confirms this. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10804559/Stonewall-tribunal-paused-witness-support-dog-evidence-against-Allison-Bailey.html

Thank you :-)

You missed something. It was a jaw-dropping riot with a lovely judge (and the judge's cat as well as a support dog).

The Tribunal Tweets coverage is here:
tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/allison-bailey-vs-stonewall-and-garden-6f9?utm_source=publication-search

Good work!
I've written to the Edinburgh Tribunal (email address as for previous access) to say I would be very disappointed if the rest of the NHS Fife hearing is in private. Also why it is important to me.

Can anyone remember how to support Tribunal Tweets, please? I know there is the subscription option but I thought I remembered another method.

Here is the press release from NHS Fife explaining why they don't want Tribunal Tweets operating & also want to exclude the public from viewing proceedings.

https://www.nhsfife.org/news-updates/latest-news/2025/04/comment-sought-on-tribunal-tweets-and-online-public-access-during-tribunal-hearing/

@JustaBaker can you advise?

Cheeky bastards, the fuckin neck on them.

I love how everything they try to do is being reported in the media. I reckon Sandies solicitor is doing an excellent job of making sure everything hits the news.
I’m sure Fife only responded with this press release because it “got out”!

I hope the judge demands to see all this purported evidence of errors. TT are careful to stress that it is their notes, not a verbatim report.

The bulk of the delays were caused with the failure of the defendants to disclose again and again.

It does seem an astonishing coincidence that the disruption that did occur happened during parts of the trial that the defence might have preferred to be “closed”.

The ET have another few months to practice broadcasting the proceedings just one-way. It can’t be that difficult.
If necessary they could ask the Supreme Court how they are doing it next Wednesday!

I don't think it's a drop off on the second day, I think it's a count of unique users. So 12556 unique users logged on the first day. On day 2, 6688 new unique users logged in with Up to 12556 users from day 1 joining them.

The NHS Fife announcement - following a public complaint.

What is a public complaint? Is it a special kind?

Surely they mean they had lots and lots of complaints? Or have their legal team been spending hours poring over tweets because one person or org objected?

Yes maybe I should complain that Dr Upton's completely delusional remarks which included the word "robot" were not transcribed verbatim - thus making the Dr seem considerably more sane than the impression given to live observers... Yes there were some words changed but it affected both sides and wasn't partisan according to my reading

But what a glorious big hole they continue to dig. NHS Fife know what a disaster they have created and it's no wonder they are pleading for this calamity to now be played out in secret. Hopefully the judge is equally pissed off with them and calls them out on their claims of the reason for the delays in this case.

For @RethinkingLife
We only take paid subscriptions on our Substack. We are very concerned about be 'de-banked' through mass reporting if we use any of the other methods of fund raising. You can give gift subscriptions which are $5 I think.

If we end up banned in Peggie, we will consider our legal options. Which might involve a crowdfunder.

Thank you for being interested in supporting our work.

And big kudos to anyone who has written to the Tribunal to complain about the withdrawal of the CVP for the remainder of the hearing. Very much appreciated. The Tribunal has heard from one complainant. We don't think they are checking public sources to see how much support their is for access and for TT reporting.

I was mixing you up with MBM (alternate method).

Subscription to you it shall be.

And the crowdfund if necessary.

Your work is invaluable.

Here's a blog by SEEN Journalism network. It's so complimentary I blush to share it....
https://seeninjournalism.substack.com/p/the-courage-of-tribunal-tweets

But only a little.

@KnottyAuty, you are awesome as usual! Are you allowed to share the email address for those of us who are not as organised and have lost the address…?

4104864/2024 - Peggie v Fife Health Board
[email protected]

Also! As per @Justabaker’s message, those of us with concerns should be emailing the Tribunal directly for maximum effect.

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/nhs-fife-promises-foster-culture-35040452?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

I love the comment from’JoMarch’ in the SEEN in Journalism Substack:

I agree. Without them, and Mumsnet, I would have no idea what the BBC has left out

From that SEEN link:

and that these sensitive souls who care so little about the privacy of their female staff, and so much about their own, will simply have to brace up and face the cameras.

Amen to that!

If there was ever a gathering/fundraiser in honour of Tribunal Tweets, I would be there in a flash. Gender stuff aside, what you do is so important for getting transparent justice. I have learned so much from their work about how the justice system works (or doesn't work).

In the absence of easy to access live feeds, transcriptions or recordings, their work is vital. I think they should be funded from the public purse for all cases with a public interest.

Ladies, I salute you.