NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #20

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It is planned that it will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19

The Trans activists seem to forget that every human being has at least one protected characteristic
and most have several at any point in time.
All of them need to be given equal weight
and conflicts between them need to be balanced out.

July feels like a long way away. What other cock-ups can we expect from NHS Fife in the interim, I wonder?

Who needs the Olympics or the football when NHS Fife are here to entertain us all summer?!

That'll be happening around the same time Rosie Duffield gets a Cabinet post.

@peregrina Rosie Duffield didn't lose the whip. She walked on principle over something else. Two child benefit cap possibly. It was fairly soon after the election and I personally think she wanted an excuse to tell them to shove it. Wes Streeting has supposedly apologised to her but less able MPs than her are getting junior minister posts and I think she probably thought there's no future for her in Labour. She could at least use them to get reelected on a Labour wave and then give them the finger. I don't blame her.

Trans row nurse Sandie Peggie faces separate disciplinary hearing

www.thetimes.com/article/6a103916-0170-4186-8d5a-24d2c159da8a?shareToken=97332eefb9f2e56119ca4746d6a2f523

The disciplinary proceedings, first reported by The Telegraph, which are separate to the employment tribunal, was due to begin on Friday but has since been rescheduled at Peggie’s request.

At Peggie's request? You mean her solicitor said "are you really sure about this?" and NHS Fife rethought their utterly stupid uniquely innovative idea of holding a disciplinary in the middle of an employment tribunal.

So, pray, what EXACTLY should the guidance be Mr Sarwar?

@WorriedMutha

Ah my mistake about Rosie Duffield, but I felt sure that there was at least one English Labour MP involved.

They and the Lib Dems were certainly prattling the TWaW line. We will have to see if they start backpedalling furiously in the next few weeks.

A spokesman for NHS Fife said: “We are unable to comment in detail on matters relating to individual members of staff, however, despite some reports, we can confirm there is no conduct hearing scheduled to take place imminently in this case.”

That's a funny comment from NHSFife. It reads as if there was no hearing ever scheduled but there must have been for SP's legal team to bring an additional claim.

It may take Rosie getting a cabinet post for me to trust Labour south of the border, it would need at least a grovelling public apology from Starmer.

Yet another indifferently written Times piece (to be fair, published ahead of the news about the postponement) but here's the archive version: https://archive.is/IGY6G

Is the disciplinary now postponed until the ET is concluded does anyone know?

I don't think we know, other than that Friday's hearing has been postponed at SP's request

Being pedantic, we all have at least five protected characteristics - age, race, religion or belief (on the basis that we all have at least one belief), sex (notwithstanding its status as a "nebulous dog whistle") and sexual orientation. Many will also have marriage or civil partnership.

I am picturing a John McEnroe You cannot be serious missive from Sandie Peggie's solicitor.

IANAL but a stern NHS Matron with 20+ years management experience.

It just struck me tonight that union representation for SP may be complicated by her legal representation at the ET.

I was once in a disciplinary meeting when the employee mentioned that she had consulted a solicitor. The union re asked to be excused to call her head office and came back saying that as the employee had taken legal advice she could no longer represent her (but stayed in the meeting for support).

The union was the RCN and I believe that’s the union SP is in?

I hope I’m overthinking things and the ET doesn’t cause additional problems for the Disciplinary process for SP.

Now updated to clarify that the disciplinary hearing has been postponed.

I've seen the letter to Fife NHS from SP's legal team

" 'Mon then, ya dicks "

Folowed by this after they posponed

"Aye, thought so, ya shitin bastards, see yous in July. Prepare to get yer erses skelped and yer lugs skuddit"

£36,000 ❤

Late to catching up with this thread (it's half term). This is really disturbing, though mirrors the levels of batshittery on display in Sandie Peggie's case. Why are people like this in receipt of taxpayers money? It's about time something was done about it.

Not least because people who are this prepared to swear up is down will not give patients good care - far from it.

We need some kind of Mumsnet sweepstake on number of cock-ups by NHS Fife between now and the resumption of the ET. Winner gets a case of Tunnocks tea cakes.

Not sure I can count that high 😃

I'm guessing n + two hairs and a freckle

Just assume I won and send me the Tunnock's