NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #20

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It is planned that it will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19

Her lawyer has started a new tribunal claim over this new investigation and hearing

Fuller quotation from the Telegraph explicitly mentions the ET:

Margaret Gribbon, Ms Peggie’s solicitor, said that new legal proceedings had now been launched against NHS Fife as a result of their actions.
“I can confirm that the handling of the investigation and the decision to proceed to a disciplinary hearing with the allegations will now be the subject of separate legal proceedings in the employment tribunal against Fife Health Board,” Ms Gribbon said.

Thanks @Mollyollydolly
I’m going to send a good luck card too.

Sandie Peggie
the cupboard under the stairs
The women's changing room
Victoria Hospital
Etc

Can any HR specialists explain how a disciplinary alongside an ET works and in what order.

Logically I can understand that a disciplinary would not pause for an ET. However normally a disciplinary would have been concluded by time an ET was being heard.

I may be wrong but understand that Sandie is still suspended, hence the tardy request for a hearing?? Maybe they think they can sweep it all under the carpet?

They apparently told her about Friday's meeting on the 2nd day of the tribunal. I don't know, but wasn't that when Sandie was being cross examined and admitted to breaking their (illegal) policy? (Though this was taken out of context). So did they fire off on the meeting based on what they thought was her admitting to something? Of course a lot happened since then....

JR - throughout these proceedings you have misgendered DU, and instructed your legal team to misgender them. You've chosen misgender him.

I missed this before, but good grief. So JR also "chose to misgender him" while arguing that noone would do it accidentally?

So in one fell swoop Fife have managed to:

• Delay this dropping off the public’s radar
• mire their image further
• Piss off the tribunal panel
• Create a whole new bunch of documents needing disclosure, any of which could contain something truly damning
• Increase the potential detriment
• Open up a new claim against themselves
• Increase the likely damages

Is there anything I’ve missed?

JR may as well make her closing submissions in interpretive dance for all day good they’ll do her client.

I'm sure others have already said this but I suspect they'll find her not guilty of misconduct and say sorry, this has all been a mistake...

Lost a long-standing staff member, and created a hostile work environment for women employees.

They still should not do even that while the Tribunal is hearing the case. They could I suppose withdraw the disciplinary charge without holding a hearing.

Suggest marking the envelope PERSONAL and/or CONFIDENTIAL, just so no jobsworth takes it upon themselves to pretend to assume it's generic correspondence about NHS business and opens them and "loses" them.

interesting...

One new director has joined, 2 are leaving soon. Like ERCC, some interesting turnover.

At this rate, NHS Fife will need to hand over the entire hospital as compensation.

Fuck a duck no, actually, please don't, I don't think the duck would like it

I'm just flabbergasted.

Poor Sandie.

JFC!

And probably make the working environment for their staff even more difficult than it undoubtedly already is, because almost every patient visiting the hospital will be bringing it up!

Dismissing Sandie is the last vindictive action they can take because they know she really wanted to keep her job in A&E. It is the thing that will hurt her, and will prevent her from seeing out her long-service retirement with friends in the usual way.

Would love to crowdfund the piper to accompany the proceedings from outside the building.

Thanks ?Molly for the address. I've written and stamped a postcard already, sending love and solidarity.

I addressed mine

Nurse Sandie Peggie
Accident & Emergency Department
Victoria Hospital
Hayfield Road
Kirkcaldy KY2 5AH

A raging bin fire that no amount of backing into will extinguish.

Posted without comment
https://x.com/Linusthecat2/status/1891238308493008951
JFC!

Doesn't work for me, what did it say?

It's not the 'why now' of the release of this info that interests me. It looks like it has come from Sandie's solicitor MG or at least she has been willing to confirm it to the Telegraph and outline the legal response. I don't think GDPR is relevant .
What I'm interested in is the when did Fife decide to proceed with the disciplinary hearing and tell Sandie that's what they were doing. Because that could throw some light on on why they are doing it.

It's also their way of warning all the other women who work for NHS Fife what will happen to them too, if they don't toe the line.

Comply or else.

What I don't understand is the bit in the Telegraph which says she was told 'on the second day' of the tribunal. Is this only coming out now? Like everyone else I'm completely baffled by this move and knowing when Fife made this decision may cast some light on their thinking.

Is that because at the time the Tribunal was actively in session, but now that it's paused, or stayed, or whatever they call it, this notice can now be spoken about?

Yes, and the judge did it several times as well.