NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #20

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It is planned that it will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19

Oh. So when they say Fridays hearing do they mean the ET or this new misconduct hearing? Was it a sly threat that if SP kept talking she would put herself in danger of admitting to goss misconduct. Or have I fallen down a line of duty script. I've never been able to keep up with all the swerveballs.

So maybe they're just desperately crossing all the Ts and dotting all the Is, however foolhardy it would appear

Considering setting up production of my Pete the Plumber pants so all proceeds can become charitable donations against this anti-reality anti-woman nonsense.

There's also the reporting of the Scottish Daily Express to the police.

And the reporting of it to IPSO.

And the fact that there will be no industrial action in support of Sandie.at the hospital because UNISON have voted TWAW. People are scared to speak out.

They are trying to break her so that she won't be able to carry on so she will take a payout and then eventually, her occupational pension, and sod off.

It reminds me of Mussolini's Italy

I still can't work out whether Sandie was admitting that her language at the tribunal would be harassment under the policy or whether her previous use of language was harassment. I thought the former when I read tribunal tweets but am conscious it's not verbatim

Yes, added up like that, it does look like panic stations.

@mrshoho the hospital are referring to their meeting.

Pete the Plumer is a stunner.

Thank you. Sorry, I wrote my post before your edit so it's all become a muddle!

Apologies if I'm not explaining it very well.

Yes, I remember that Sandie 'admitted' breach of policy (although it has been misrepresented in the media). And yes, I know it would be usual to give notice of potential outcomes of a hearing.

What I don't understand is the bit in the Telegraph which says she was told 'on the second day' of the tribunal. Is this only coming out now? Like everyone else I'm completely baffled by this move and knowing when Fife made this decision may cast some light on their thinking.

God I need to remember to spellcheck.

Love them. Not a chance in hell I'm wearing them. You can bet money the second they were on I'd get knocked over by a bus and wake to paramedics laughing at my pants.

There's also the reporting of the Scottish Daily Express to the police

Police Scotland responded, saying there is no crime to pursue. They will consider whether it might be a Non Crime Hate Incident, which I think carries no penalty. (Pls correct me if I'm wrong on that!)

It seems to me that in spite of trying to use the correct pronouns at work for DU (essentially lying), SP is now being punished for speaking the truth during the hearing, in which she swore to only tell the truth.

Won't they be a bit tight for him her at the front?

I believe that JR, inadvertently of course, misled SP as to the law; I do not see that referring to a respondent, in the third person, by a gender they did not desire in a court which had approved this, while giving evidence, cannot possibly be a breach of Fife's policy not least because that policy could not possibly apply there. So the forced admission of harassment according to Fife's policy was incorrect in law.
(edited for typo)

I wonder if SP's solicitor was holding out that NHS Fife would cancel the misconduct meeting in light of the ongoing ET? I guess if they got word that the fools were pressing ahead, she then released the info to the press to gain support?

I thought we could all re-fashion our washing lines as some sort of flag pole and display Pete in all his glory.

I wonder what Sandie's nursing colleagues are making of this. I hope some are brave enough to offer her support in private at least. It must feel crazy working at NHS Fife at the moment with all this publicity and your colleagues in the news. I wish someone there would stand up for Sandie and surely more colleagues would follow.

I understood her to be agreeing that what she had said in the hearing, in regards to the misgendering, would fall under the B+H policy. It didn't appear like she was admitting guilt of prior instances at work. I was watching remotely.

SP's solicitor is quoted as saying now proceedings have now been launched against NHS Fife as a result of this.

What sort of legal proceedings could they launch? Is it another harassment claim, an amended claim in the existing Tribunal? A threatening letter to get them to retract the meeting invite? I feel like this is such a bin fire that guessing the next steps are for advanced legal ningas.

Is it possible for Gribbon or other members of Peggie's legal team to appear on Monday morning media shows?

If they've genuinely had nearly 2 weeks notice of this then I applaud what I can only think is the extraordinary wiliness of NC. NC must eat 3-dimensional chess for breakfast and need 5-dimensional before she needs to even start engaging her brain.

The question of why has this info been released now, I’m not sure, really it should be confidential under GDPR.

The hospital address is
Sandie Peggie
Victoria Hospital
Hayfield Road
Kirkcaldy KY2 5AH

I'm sending her a good luck card to that address. Feel a bit helpless, just want to show support and show them they're bullying dickheads.

Fife's KC told the court (and the press) the outcome of the investigation

https://x.com/tribunaltweets/status/1886736358175089103
JR - the IX found that this was wrong. This could be seen as insinuation that DU posed risks, such as rape. That's what they thought.
SP - that's what they thought
JR - that's what they thought, that you were comparing DU to a dangerous predator
SP - that was not my intention
JR - but that may have been how it was heard
SP - it may have been

https://x.com/tribunaltweets/status/1886737385762816448

JR - but DU wrote a contemp note, so DU recollection is likely better than yours, SP - i didn't make any notes because I did not expect anything to come from the convo
JR - my point was that DU recollection likely to be better than yours,
SP - it may be
11:23 AM · Feb 4, 2025
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