NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #20

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It is planned that it will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19

It's a strange strategy, because if she wins a constructive dismissal/victimisation claim based off this then she would be able to recoup all of the wages she was entitled to anyway!

Some of her social media suggests that she's still of the 'Be kind' view, but she's also expressed the belief that women need their own spaces.

Can anyone with HR background advise whether this is allowed in the circumstances?

How has it been leaked that the meeting is to sack SP?

Wouldn't that just be met with unfair dismissal claim?

Oh FFS!

It's got to be to punish her / to try and force a settlement / because they feel they have nothing to lose and it's worth the risk in case they win / to try and deter further future dissent from women.

I feel like it's a rat in the corner / last stand type of move.

It's really bizarre.

Ok, I will hold off on throwing darts at her photo until further notice…

I'm sorry, I still don't understand. Could you explain please?

https://x.com/pro_nouns/status/1890748408899539342/photo/1

I think the more badly they treat her, the less likely that she will settle. And I don't think she's having to worry about the money. No one knows who's funding it but I think we're all pretty sure it's someone who could buy the hospital if they so wished.

It makes no sense until you remember that it’s not their own personal money, the NHS will pay whatever sum it is, it’s a warning to anyone else who might think about speaking up in future, the process is the punishment.

https://x.com/pro_nouns/status/1890748408899539342/photo/1

Thank you for your sleuthing! Sighs of relief all round.

30 Years of service she has given to them. How can they treat her in this way.

It's so utterly baffling. Upton can't have this much power can he? The gender police are destroying everyones reputation at NHSFife. Is there no one with a brain there? Who's really behind it?

I can't say too much, but I'm local so really don't see her as a TRA.

When she was elected, she said that folk were voting for her dad - he was well known in the community. I didn't even know she had a brother till the photo of the bloke in the wig popped up on Twitter.

NHS Fifes board meeting from November said this about the risk of negative publicity.

Anyone fancy attending the march meeting (public observers can attend) https://www.nhsfife.org/about-us/nhs-fife-board/

Having read the full story, it seems they are including the patient safety allegations in this conduct hearing. Given how mild they are and given that the evidence we've heard in tribunal suggests they didn't happen, that is beyond stupid. SP's solicitor is quoted as saying now proceedings have now been launched against NHS Fife as a result of this. I am not surprised.

That was the other thing I was going to say.

If it's a last stand type scenario, if you have some full on TRAs trying to force Sandy / punish her then they wouldn't be arsed at pouring money into it. It's not theirs.

An internal report is said to have called for Ms Peggie to face a further allegation of “misgendering”, in addition to the changing room incident, because during the probe she is said to have referred to Dr Upton as a man to investigators.
Reading this, it wasn't even misgendering to his face (not that I care about that at all) it was to investigators! Second hand offence on their behalf somewhat.

Am I right in remembering that Esther Davidson changed Sandie's language in her report because Sandie had dared to refer to Upton as 'he' instead of 'she'?

I now need a t shirt with the image of a bus full of drunken llamas pushing a dumpster on fire over a cliff.

We'll let her off then

"I wonder if it was SPs response to the question about breaching hospital policies."

I've been trying to work out what the hell is going on & thought that maybe it was just 'lawfare' tactics, to pile as pressure much onto SP as possible & throw this in at the last possible moment. A desperate act or something. But if it's this - the answer she gave that's been so badly misrepresented in the media & commentary - it's even lower than a desperate act on NHS Fife's part. It's displaying all the inept leadership qualities of the entire board to as wide an audience as possible & thinking that is a smart move. Just as the 'heat' was dissipating with the end of the 2 weeks of PR hell they brought upon themselves.

They're are so spectacularly stupid it's painful to watch.

It's not Upton they are defending, it is the ideology. It is a house of cards, one goes, the whole lot tumble.

.

Anyone with desktop publishing skills? A cartoon postcard to the CE of NHS Fife from hundreds of women expressing their utter disgust?