NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #20

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It is planned that it will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19

Posted without comment
https://x.com/Linusthecat2/status/1891238308493008951

So, because she wouldn't pay the protection money and stay schtum, they've sent the boys round, the ones with eyes dead as vicious fish, to break her legs.

Great work, Fife Victoria. Have any of your legal team even got an NVQ in Watching Courtroom Dramas?

@ickky OMFG

OH FFS!

Peter Daly's additional thoughts in line with some thinking on this thread and in response to another lawyer's inquiry, "It’s just staggering. Who on earth is advising them?"

I can’t believe there are any qualified professionals involved. It’s so implausible that my initial view was that the most likely explanation is that someone has misled the press. But there is a quote from Ms Peggie’s solicitor, so the story must be right. I’m completely baffled.

An NHS approach in whistleblowing claims is to take every point, escalating at every juncture, until C runs out of money and gives up. If that’s the plan here (and it’s the only one I can think of) it’s spectacularly misguided given publicity & support for C (1/2)

(2/2) And it’s also far more strategic than NHS Fife have shown thus far. That’s why I think it’s straightforward Gender Ideology madness.

https://x.com/peter_daly/status/1891232722372243457

I think she has actually only called Upton a man to his face on one occasion? When she was probably distressed due to her period leaking on to her clothing and then finding him in female changing room? She handled that situation a lot better than I would have been able too.

madness.

Several people wondering if it's about settling the case.

If J. K. Rowling is behind it, no fucking way.

'Joyce's law'.

I hadn't heard that before.

I wonder if the management are the same people that were not supposed to be observing the tribunal this far.

Not that rules seem to matter to these people.

In other news, I've not stopped swearing in the last hour.

Absolutely mindblowing

This is unbelievable. Poor Sandie.

How long has she had to carry this news? How long have Fife been planning this? I'm confused by this bit in the Telegraph -

Ms Peggie is believed to have been told by NHS Fife on the second day of her employment tribunal that potential outcomes from Friday’s hearing include sanctions up to and including dismissal from her job.

Is this just referring to something that was said to her by JR during her evidence or was that when she received notice of Friday's hearing?

If JK isn't on board, then this would be a good way to recruit her tbh.

could this be an attempt to mitigate any damages they'd have to pay if they lost the tribunal? They wouldn't be paying any wages if they sack her so they could potentially see it as akin to paying notice...
if that makes sense?

Ah, very enlightening

And predictable

She's not a TRA, in spite of her brother.

I thought it would be July before I came back to this thread.

Then this. have the hospital lost their fucking minds ?
Poor Sandie

Same. I would have gotten flustered and tried to include far too many points about why he shouldn't have been in the changing room, shouted and then cried.

I like that idea. Very much. Sacks and sacks of them.

Even if JKR isn't behind it, if SP needs to crowdfund, it's going to take her about 10 minutes to get to whatever sum she needs.

This makes no rational sense, though, from the Trust's perspective because if they force her to quit due to pressure then she has a cause of action in constructive dismissal plus victimisation. So it just makes things even worse for them. The only way this would make any rational sense is if their number one priority was getting rid of her at any cost - no matter the reputational and financial damage.

I previously wondered whether a board member may have had a trans identified child, but this makes things much clearer.

Really? I mean that genuinely - is there evidence that she accepts GC views? Because that would make me less stressed about this new wrinkle, tbh.

I wonder if it was SPs response to the question about breaching hospital policies.

I meant to add that the sanctions including dismissal is standard. You have to alert the person of the potential outcomes.

A PP said earlier that Upton has no credibility- his lies about his sex undermines his story about the risk to patients.

Well that turns out to be so bloody true. I’m a fibro sufferer and know many others. Yes, mobility aids can be part of it. Yes some use wheelchairs. I wouldn’t ever question someone’s need. Except, Patricia is lying about something else….

Yep