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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #20

1000 replies

nauticant · 16/02/2025 14:41

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It is planned that it will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19

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32
rebmacesrevda · 16/02/2025 21:34

I need to know that Sandie will be okay if they do sack her. There are sane employers out there, right? She'll get a new job, yes? Maybe in the private sector if the entire NHS is infected. Someone tell me she'll be okay!

Datun · 16/02/2025 21:34

It is, of course, possible they think they are winning so can complete the humiliation of this inconvenient nurse - after all, many TRAs seem convinced the case is going well.

This is very true and not to be underestimated

Babadookinthewardrobe · 16/02/2025 21:35

It’s just fucking malice from NHS Fife. My blood is boiling. Poor Sandie. I hope the ET judge takes the misogynistic bullying bastards to the cleaners.

Jimmyneutronsforehead · 16/02/2025 21:35

Can Sandie bring this forward with her existing case or will she have to bring it forward as a separate case if NC is not allowed to offer any further advice while the case is ongoing?

RedToothBrush · 16/02/2025 21:36

Datun · 16/02/2025 21:31

Oh my God, I can barely believe what I've just read.

Misgendering isn't a crime. The judge sanctioned everyone to be able to do it. Sandie didn't even do it to Upton, she did it to a third-party!!

She actually did it to 'investigators', who are investigating the specific issue of a man in the women's changing room.

And as for the patient safety incidents. Which patients? Which shift? When?

Nobody knows!!

There must be more behind this. There has to be some mad fucking infiltration on the board of NHS Fife. See also TRAs jumping up and down trying to go after the Scottish Express.

In which case, it honestly wouldn't surprise me if they did fire her. There you go, bitch.

And she'll then be suing them for unfair dismissal!

Unless the judge is a hopeless TRA, surely, this is going to make him think, right, we'll have every bit of bloody paper, every phone call, we'll get the BMA down here, we'll have your inside leg measurement if necessary.

Transactivism is watching every single fucking wheel come off and roll down the hill.

Desperate times call for desperate measures, eh? And the right side of history isn't going to populate itself.

Edited

And even if the judge sides with Fife, I can see the ruling surviving contact with reality for more than about five minutes before the public lose the plot.

myplace · 16/02/2025 21:36

I’m thinking so many things….

I’m thinking what the hell, Fife?!

I’m thinking, I hope Sandie never has to work another day in her life after this, and can spend her days pottering around training therapy chickens to lend out to stressed women.

I’m also thinking we’re never going to get any work done ever, with these threads sucking up all our attention. The economy is going to grind to a halt.

And I’m going to get so fat.

Stepfordian · 16/02/2025 21:36

I don’t think they’ll sack her, I think this latest development is to put so much pressure on her that going to work is intolerable and she quits so they don’t have to fire her. It’s a bloody stupid idea but I’d expect nothing less.

prh47bridge · 16/02/2025 21:36

Conxis · 16/02/2025 21:23

Do the losing side in an employment tribunal have to pay the other sides legal cost? Anyone know?

In general no, costs are not awarded in employment tribunals. However, costs can be awarded if one side is judged to have behaved unreasonably. The repeated disclosure failures by DU and NHS Fife could allow SP to claim any costs she has incurred due to their failures, for example.

myplace · 16/02/2025 21:37

rebmacesrevda · 16/02/2025 21:34

I need to know that Sandie will be okay if they do sack her. There are sane employers out there, right? She'll get a new job, yes? Maybe in the private sector if the entire NHS is infected. Someone tell me she'll be okay!

I’ve been worrying the same. Where would she want to work after this shit show?

Babadookinthewardrobe · 16/02/2025 21:37

They don’t eek to give a shit about the law or their reputation. This is really desperate stuff.

NotAComputerPer5on · 16/02/2025 21:37

I was waiting for @datun or @RedToothBrush to come along and make it make sense....😥
It's not good when Red swears...

I'm hoping we wake up tomorrow and this is some massive misunderstanding...

RedToothBrush · 16/02/2025 21:37

rebmacesrevda · 16/02/2025 21:34

I need to know that Sandie will be okay if they do sack her. There are sane employers out there, right? She'll get a new job, yes? Maybe in the private sector if the entire NHS is infected. Someone tell me she'll be okay!

She'll be in high demand on every media outlet you can think of between here and Texas.

She will be fine.

ThatThisThatYou · 16/02/2025 21:38

I bet NHS Fife have dusted off an old Stonewall accredited policy on misgendering and thought “this’ll sort the witch”.

Bluebootsgreenboots · 16/02/2025 21:38

Shall we all send her 'good luck' cards c/o the hospital? They could arrive like the Hogwarts info to the Dursleys!

Stepfordian · 16/02/2025 21:38

Just to add I wouldn’t be surprised if they’ve got someone watching her every move and going through everything she’s ever done and looking for something to fire her over. The process is the punishment, as we know.

BecauseRonald · 16/02/2025 21:38

rebmacesrevda · 16/02/2025 21:34

I need to know that Sandie will be okay if they do sack her. There are sane employers out there, right? She'll get a new job, yes? Maybe in the private sector if the entire NHS is infected. Someone tell me she'll be okay!

Oh I wonder if this is what it's all about? To penalise Sandie further, to leave her without a job / income until almost the end of the year (tribunal to end in late July and decision to be made public in late Autumn?).

NotAComputerPer5on · 16/02/2025 21:39

myplace · 16/02/2025 21:36

I’m thinking so many things….

I’m thinking what the hell, Fife?!

I’m thinking, I hope Sandie never has to work another day in her life after this, and can spend her days pottering around training therapy chickens to lend out to stressed women.

I’m also thinking we’re never going to get any work done ever, with these threads sucking up all our attention. The economy is going to grind to a halt.

And I’m going to get so fat.

Thousand times this....

Babadookinthewardrobe · 16/02/2025 21:40

myplace · 16/02/2025 21:36

I’m thinking so many things….

I’m thinking what the hell, Fife?!

I’m thinking, I hope Sandie never has to work another day in her life after this, and can spend her days pottering around training therapy chickens to lend out to stressed women.

I’m also thinking we’re never going to get any work done ever, with these threads sucking up all our attention. The economy is going to grind to a halt.

And I’m going to get so fat.

😂me too! My blood pressure can’t take it and the biscuit jar is taking a pounding. I’m
v angry and taking it out on the bourbons. I can’t imagine how Sandie is feeling having been repeatedly knifed in the back by an employer she gave 30 years to.

RedToothBrush · 16/02/2025 21:40

BecauseRonald · 16/02/2025 21:38

Oh I wonder if this is what it's all about? To penalise Sandie further, to leave her without a job / income until almost the end of the year (tribunal to end in late July and decision to be made public in late Autumn?).

When you put it in these terms, it could be to financially screw her in order to try and force an out of court settlement which so far she's apparently declined.

Appalonia · 16/02/2025 21:40

Could it be an attempt to get her to settle the case?

prh47bridge · 16/02/2025 21:40

TriesNotToBeCynical · 16/02/2025 21:24

Whatever the rights and wrongs of calling Dr Upton a man to his face, which is sort of sub judice, is not expressing a belief that he is a man in private to a third party not expressing a protected belief?

Yes, it is. If this relates to SP calling DU a man to someone other than DU, NHS Fife would be sacking her for expressing a protected belief. Stupid isn't remotely strong enough to describe this.

Datun · 16/02/2025 21:41

I wonder if they see the employment tribunal slipping away from them, so have 'come up' with some extra evidence?

ickky · 16/02/2025 21:41

Datun · 16/02/2025 21:31

Oh my God, I can barely believe what I've just read.

Misgendering isn't a crime. The judge sanctioned everyone to be able to do it. Sandie didn't even do it to Upton, she did it to a third-party!!

She actually did it to 'investigators', who are investigating the specific issue of a man in the women's changing room.

And as for the patient safety incidents. Which patients? Which shift? When?

Nobody knows!!

There must be more behind this. There has to be some mad fucking infiltration on the board of NHS Fife. See also TRAs jumping up and down trying to go after the Scottish Express.

In which case, it honestly wouldn't surprise me if they did fire her. There you go, bitch.

And she'll then be suing them for unfair dismissal!

Unless the judge is a hopeless TRA, surely, this is going to make him think, right, we'll have every bit of bloody paper, every phone call, we'll get the BMA down here, we'll have your inside leg measurement if necessary.

Transactivism is watching every single fucking wheel come off and roll down the hill.

Desperate times call for desperate measures, eh? And the right side of history isn't going to populate itself.

Edited

This may illuminate matters.

https://x.com/WingsScotland/status/1890713483240522096

rebmacesrevda · 16/02/2025 21:41

RedToothBrush · 16/02/2025 21:37

She'll be in high demand on every media outlet you can think of between here and Texas.

She will be fine.

Thanks!

I reckon a stern nurse from Fife would go down well in Texas 😀

RedToothBrush · 16/02/2025 21:42

Appalonia · 16/02/2025 21:40

Could it be an attempt to get her to settle the case?

Cross posts.

Thats the only logical conclusion I can come to.

The case is going so badly for Fife that they've had to get dirty to kill it or face having to change policy.

If she settles they can continue to fuck over women.

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