NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #22

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It is planned that it will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21

She's a very brave woman. NHS FIFE and Dr Upton under estimated the woman who they got into a fight with.

And the amount of public support for her. I wonder if the Victoria Hospital is still getting loads of post for her?

You'd think Swinney could do with some history lessons. Learn from previous people's mistakes.
Isla pulled Nicola off her perch.
Beth is going to pull John of his

Love the Courier not letting this go. That DM article TwistedWonder posted upthread is quite a cracker too actually. It really goes for ‘getting ahead of the law’ and lays it out straight re the possible consequences in terms of compensation that might be claimed by many thousands of women.

Link for those who’d prefer not to click: https://archive.ph/VqoTb

Bravery - I’m reminded of Millicent Fawcett 😍

Sandie has given me the courage to complain about the trans policy at my work which allows men to access female single sex spaces if they want to.

I met with a lawyer friend to ensure I had the correct legal references such as the 1992 regulations and why the Equality Act's use of 'proportional means' doesn't apply to the regulations. I also referenced Sandies case and asked for the organisation's senior lawyer to personally confirm she had read the policy and agreed it was legally complaint (spoiler it's not compliant 😂). I hope being forced to put her name to it will focus her mind a bit

To be fair I think Isla was damaging but the fraud investigation and campervan-gate was the bigger blow. Which is why the Tribunal payout could be so damaging. As someone said on the previous page - it’s difficult to get people interested when the issue doesn’t affect them. But when it’s about misuse of public funds…. Well everyone understands that!!

Courier archive link for today’s article:
https://archive.is/Xq7AZ

Bloody hell, that's amazing, well done!

Well done! I hope it gets sorted xx

edited to add - maybe you could post the wording of your letter in due course if it does the trick

I think this is the Once for Scotland policy referred to by The Courier

www.gov.scot/publications/consultation-nhsscotland-once-scotland-workforce-policies/pages/3/

The link referred to there being a consultation about it

Here is the bullying and harassment policy that was operational in 23/4 (and still is):

workforce.nhs.scot/policies/bullying-and-harassment-policy-overview/bullying-and-harassment-policy/

Most people don't really care about things that don't affect them directly. We should.

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

Well done.

Brilliant, I hope they see sense!

Well done @Chrysanthemum5 !

Brilliant! Well done!

John Swinney is really between a rock and a hard place, isn't he? He has to say that he thinks trans women are women because that is the position the Scottish Government has argued at the Supreme Court.

But coming out with garbled answers whenever he is asked about it clearly isn't a vote winner. He must know which way the wind is blowing, surely? The SNP have got themselves in a right muddle.

You can make archive links yourself if one doesn't already exist.

This is true.

It's unfair to blame other women when it's men who abuse, but I'm fed up with seeing so many privileged women in positions of influence who feel able to consent on behalf of other women. Often doing so whilst claiming to represent other women by heading charities or working in equalities!

What makes no sense is if there were no policies in place for changing rooms and transitioning staff what was Isla Bumba basing her advice on? She advised ED that dr Upton could not be excluded from the female changing room. Based on what?
Without following a written policy then IB and ED have acted on their own and can't use the defence of following the policy.
Or is there another secret policy!

Ive been away but I saw someone on here saying he is now working in anaesthetics ? Are the tax paying public now expected to be attended by a DR who claims it’s possible to change sex and that he is now a woman? Shouldn’t this be a matter for investigation of his fitness to practice? Im aghast.

@Endthisshit I believe there's been a few reports to the gmc. I can't find their comments but think it was just unable to look at while trial ongoing, or something as insipid.

Twas ever thus though. Some of the women who opposed women’s suffrage did so because they were fine and it just hadn’t occurred to them that other women weren’t.

Yesterday I saw on of those dumb posts on FB; here's a little sticker you can buy, that says, a transperson peed here and nobody died". They are so cool, right? 🙄I thought I'd respond, "Yeah, give some to your daughters, they can pin them up in the toilets at school."

Ive been away but I saw someone on here saying he is now working in anaesthetics ?

Yes, this was mentioned in the tribunal.