NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #22

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It is planned that it will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21

Good stuff!
Wonder how long before he goes for another name change?

@SidewaysOtter well done. I dipped in and out of the threads they were going so fast

Would a rose by any other name etc. - W. Shakespeare

I note the judgement quoted in the article refers to Rose as 'her'. Do we know if there is/has been any application or ruling on the use of pronouns during the hearing as in Sandie Peggie's case? I think it makes such a difference.

It is probably too early, but I expect the Darlington paperwork will be linked from here: https://sex-matters.org/case-briefings/bethany-hutchison-and-others-v-county-durham-and-darlington-nhs-trust/

A win for the Darlington nurses
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/02/27/nurses-win-battle-name-trans-colleague-in-changing-room/

https://archive.is/Fa9dl

Interesting read.

Oh fantastic, good for them. Let the sunlight commence.

I notice that he tried to intimidate the nurses when he learnt about the proceedings.

"A full employment tribunal hearing is expected to begin on June 16 at Newcastle Employment Tribunal."

I imagine that tribunal is going to be discussed here in the Never Ending Thread.

EHRC written to them yet?

It will have its own never ending thread like all the other big tribunals.

That's June and July now where I get nothing done!

Or perhaps Darlington NHS Trust, having witnessed the horror show of Fife, will settle early and save itself the embarrassment of making a public fool of itself?

Or maybe not. The higher echelons of the NHS seem to be slow learners.

Should Darlington have its own shiny thread? I am sure there must be an old one, but I didn't spot it.

If this ET is in June, it will possibly be completed before Fife?

This sounds mad: No hormones, wanders around in his boxers and is trying to get his girlfriend pregnant:
https://christianconcern.com/cccases/darlington-nurses/

It has one but the tribunal itself should probably have its own one.

It's the County Durham and Darlington NHS Foundation Trust if anyone in EHRC wants to ask them about their impact assessment and/ or why they are not complying with the law.

NebulousDog · Today 15:42

Oooh Darlington trans nurse denied anonymity for forthcoming ET:

It's interesting to note that, at work, in women's spaces, these types are confident and in yer face, but when the time comes for rational adults to discuss it, they are desperate to hide in the shadows.

Surely it can't be because they honestly know that they're so full of shit that their eyes are brown?

Bethany Hutchison: “This is about an untenable Stonewall inspired policy used across the NHS which allows men to use female changing rooms if they merely ‘identify’ as a woman.
“This policy puts women at risk, and yet no one in the NHS or the government appears able or prepared to do anything about it, so we have to fight this battle instead.”
Good for her and the other Darlington nurses. So much sunlight on the institutional capture due to these cases. I hope this leads to policy reform and a return to sanity.

I caught the tail end of Rethink on Radio 4 this afternoon taking about the boggy ground where liberalism currently finds itself.

There seemed to be some interesting comments with regards the rise of identity politics in that last 10 or 15 years

Have not listened to all of it yet but thought it might be of interest to others

Rethink - Liberalism - BBC Sounds

From around 13 minutes it talks about gay marriage being the peak of traditional liberalism leading into a sort of cult of self identity

Oh yes. When these men are controlling the show they are hardly the retiring wall flowers. He would have to be a right attention seeking, brazen, show off, to be swanning around in female changing rooms in his boxers. I'm so pleased the judges in both these tribunals have refused anonymity. Let the world see just what these nurses have been up against.

I hope the Darlington Nurses get their own thread - surely @nauticant needs a break before Sandie’s hearing kicks off again in July?!

I'm glad the judge found that 'Rose' had no evidence whatsoever to support his application for anonymity. He made a vague reference in his witness statement to 'horrible comments'. Let's not forget that this, with the help of no doubt very expensive and specialist lawyers, was his best case.

Yet the nurses presented evidence at the hearing that the fragrant Rose has been campaigning for Stonewall on Facebook and is a member of a 'Transgender shit-posting ' group.

Such a delicate flower.

There's a Darlington nurse thread here

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5197038-wes-streeting-backs-the-darlington-nurses?page=9&reply=142497242

Privacy for me and not for thee.