NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #20

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It is planned that it will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19

@angelinawasrobbed that is a possibility given how utterly batshit this is.
I suppose we will know more tomorrow.

Apparently she received the letter on the 2nd day of the hearing. So you're probably right that they thought it would be done with by the time the meeting happened.

@angelinawasrobbed good point we will see….

That wouldn't surprise me at all. I can well imagine some junior admin bod getting a rollicking tomorrow morning.

Surely they'd wait for the result of the tribunal though (in a sane world) even if it had concluded on Friday? You'd think.

I've developed an open mouthed gawp.
I suppose it's a change from my resting bitch face.

having thought this through, Fife cannot proceed with a disciplinary since that is an element of Sadies complaint of harassment.

I need a a bandage to strap my jaw up from the flaw.

Michael Foran's thread:

It's been revealed that NHS Fife are still investigating Sandie Peggie for accusations their lawyer, Jane Russell, is arguing she is guilty of in open court. I can't stress how shocking it is to pre-judge an ongoing disciplinary process like this.

NSH Fife did not need to accuse Sandie Peggie of harassment in order to defend itself in this case. It could have argued that nothing it did was unlawful and it acted reasonably based on the accusations made against her.

Instead, Jane Russell has implied that Peggie is a racist, homophobic, transphobic bigot and claimed that she is the one who has engaged in harassment in this case. Internally, NHS Fife are yet to come to a conclusion on the accusations against Peggie. It's just shockingly unjust

It's no wonder that Sandie Peggie's legal team are launching another lawsuit against NHS Fife for this flagrant breach of natural justice and procedural fairness. I just can't believe a competent lawyer would make an error of this magnitude.

https://x.com/michaelpforan/status/1891266274895786327

Ms Peggie is believed to have been told by NHS Fife on the second day of her employment tribunal that potential outcomes from Friday’s hearing include sanctions up to and including dismissal from her job.

https://archive.ph/XmNMj#selection-3033.0-3033.204

From the Telegraph article.

Duncan Bannatyne obviously agrees: he's equally astonished.

https://x.com/DuncanBannatyne/status/1891219170324251102

Ditto! 🤣

Also, if the investigation held next week were to not uphold the complaints, then Dr Upton may have reason to complain that holding it the week after the nasty mean "pack of lies" tribunal hearing may have unfairly biased HR against his otherwise faultless witness testimony.
Whatever the outcome, there is so much risk.

I could well believe Fife are that stupid except that it looks like this happened almost a fortnight ago.

I hope it becomes clearer tomorrow.

And I'm very glad that whatever fuckery Fife are up to, Sandie has the support and legal advice of the best in the business, even if they can't attend the hearing with her.

Calling him a man is unlikely to amount to harassment I think given people are entitled to believe trans people remain their birth sex

@Liverstreaming
JR may as well make her closing submissions in interpretive dance for all day good they’ll do her client.

That took me to a David Armand interpretative dance video on Youtube, which was cheering.

They are. You can't misgender 'with impunity', but I doubt that saying DU shouldn't be in the F CR because he's a man would fall into that category anyway. It's a factual statement as to why he shouldn't be in there.

I presume the First Minister and the Prime Minister as well as Health Ministers will be asked about this. This is huge.

Those comments are so heartening, feels like the damn has finally broken, the amount of outrage there is at this. Such a long way from the days of #nodebate...

😂 It's so hard to tell, isn't it?
It seems there's been various comms between departments, during which nobody has managed to pin down what actually (allegedly) happened, and no evidence of anything was produced. Regardless, ED insisted on suspension, in advance of an imaginary incident that might happen!
I think Sandie had a meeting (maybe two) but left none the wiser as to what she was actually accused of, so unable to defend herself. The whole thing seems to be based on hurt feelings caused by Dr U's overactive imagination. I think the suspension was continued to buy time, as they knew Dr U would move to a different department, and then it'd be safe to bring Sandie back, without ever having to address the alleged (imagined) offences against him.
Shambolic indeed.

"But they will have carried on holding crisis talks throughout the hearing. To go ahead knowing what they know now is just bonkers."

More so because they've got the undisclosed documents. They know what we don't & what SP's legal team suspect but can't yet prove or confirm.

It is utterly bonkers. With knobs on.

I just can't get my head around this. If they told her about this on day 2 of the tribunal isn't that bullying and harassment in itself. I think I'm going to spontaneously combust.

IANAL. I wondered if this might prevent 'deeper enquiries'
Ok there is no case to answer, so no reason to ask to see BMA records or DU's phone

Utterly shocked by this.
I see ED will be giving evidence or something at the disciplinary. I'd have thought she'd be off sick with shame after her performance at the tribunal. I hope Sandie is able to look her in the eye and win a stare down during the proceedings.

People in the comments in the Telegraph are sharing the email address of the CEO if it hasn't already been shared here.

"The Chief Executive of Fife NHS can be emailed -
[email protected]
I have just emailed her outlining my disgust and asking her not to sack Nurse Peggie. I hope others do too. We need to stand up for what is right, decent and proper."

I can see Carol Potter having a compulsory appointment to explain herself (if that is her pronoun) to judge quite soon.

So because DU has high up church connections in Fife who probably have lots of influence Fife NHS are going ahead with the witch burning. Has DU’s mum said to NHS Fife CEO and Head of HR not to worry as she has squared a deal with the god squad?

My money is on their publicity team all job hunting as this story isn’t going to die down.

It is making the whole medical profession look like a bunch of idiots being run by clowns