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Original poster

NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #20

1000 replies

nauticant · 16/02/2025 14:41

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It is planned that it will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

OP posts:

Thread gallery

Lark1ane · 16/02/2025 23:47

@angelinawasrobbed that is a possibility given how utterly batshit this is.
I suppose we will know more tomorrow.

NoWordForFluffy · 16/02/2025 23:47

angelinawasrobbed · 16/02/2025 23:44

I can only assume they thought the Tribunal would be concluded on Friday rather than continued, and had a letter ready to go to Sandy re-starting the disciplinary process next week. And someone who hasn’t been paying attention actually put it in the post …

Apparently she received the letter on the 2nd day of the hearing. So you're probably right that they thought it would be done with by the time the meeting happened.

Bannedontherun · 16/02/2025 23:47

@angelinawasrobbed good point we will see….

AlecTrevelyan006 · 16/02/2025 23:48

angelinawasrobbed · 16/02/2025 23:44

That wouldn't surprise me at all. I can well imagine some junior admin bod getting a rollicking tomorrow morning.

Mollyollydolly · 16/02/2025 23:49

Surely they'd wait for the result of the tribunal though (in a sane world) even if it had concluded on Friday? You'd think.

Lark1ane · 16/02/2025 23:52

I've developed an open mouthed gawp.
I suppose it's a change from my resting bitch face.

Bannedontherun · 16/02/2025 23:52

having thought this through, Fife cannot proceed with a disciplinary since that is an element of Sadies complaint of harassment.

I need a a bandage to strap my jaw up from the flaw.

RethinkingLife · 16/02/2025 23:52

Michael Foran's thread:

It's been revealed that NHS Fife are still investigating Sandie Peggie for accusations their lawyer, Jane Russell, is arguing she is guilty of in open court. I can't stress how shocking it is to pre-judge an ongoing disciplinary process like this.

NSH Fife did not need to accuse Sandie Peggie of harassment in order to defend itself in this case. It could have argued that nothing it did was unlawful and it acted reasonably based on the accusations made against her.

Instead, Jane Russell has implied that Peggie is a racist, homophobic, transphobic bigot and claimed that she is the one who has engaged in harassment in this case. Internally, NHS Fife are yet to come to a conclusion on the accusations against Peggie. It's just shockingly unjust

It's no wonder that Sandie Peggie's legal team are launching another lawsuit against NHS Fife for this flagrant breach of natural justice and procedural fairness. I just can't believe a competent lawyer would make an error of this magnitude.

https://x.com/michaelpforan/status/1891266274895786327

RethinkingLife · 16/02/2025 23:54

angelinawasrobbed · 16/02/2025 23:44

Ms Peggie is believed to have been told by NHS Fife on the second day of her employment tribunal that potential outcomes from Friday’s hearing include sanctions up to and including dismissal from her job.

https://archive.ph/XmNMj#selection-3033.0-3033.204

From the Telegraph article.

WearyAuldWumman · 16/02/2025 23:54

Lark1ane · 16/02/2025 23:52

I've developed an open mouthed gawp.
I suppose it's a change from my resting bitch face.

Duncan Bannatyne obviously agrees: he's equally astonished.

https://x.com/DuncanBannatyne/status/1891219170324251102

NoWordForFluffy · 16/02/2025 23:54

Lark1ane · 16/02/2025 23:52

I've developed an open mouthed gawp.
I suppose it's a change from my resting bitch face.

Ditto! 🤣

Mountaingoat23 · 16/02/2025 23:55

NoBinturongsHereMate · 16/02/2025 23:38

IANAL, but off the top of my head reasons why this is utterly insane include:

They have stated as fact in the tribunal things that the investigation hasn't actually concluded yet.

They are including in the investigation hearing things that have been shown in the tribunal to be at best enormously exaggerated - and quite possibly entirely fabricated.

When the issue being investigated is a man in the women's changing room, you have to allow the person being investigated to say in her evidence that there's a man in the women's changing room.

The previous point has just been confirmed by a tribunal judge.

And they have to somehow hold this hearing without anyone involved discussing any part of the tribunal case or evidence.

I'm sure there's more, but most of my brain is currently too busy going 'what the actual fuck?!' to think it through properly.

Also, if the investigation held next week were to not uphold the complaints, then Dr Upton may have reason to complain that holding it the week after the nasty mean "pack of lies" tribunal hearing may have unfairly biased HR against his otherwise faultless witness testimony.
Whatever the outcome, there is so much risk.

CriticalCondition · 16/02/2025 23:55

angelinawasrobbed · 16/02/2025 23:44

I could well believe Fife are that stupid except that it looks like this happened almost a fortnight ago.

I hope it becomes clearer tomorrow.

And I'm very glad that whatever fuckery Fife are up to, Sandie has the support and legal advice of the best in the business, even if they can't attend the hearing with her.

ThatsNotMyTeen · 16/02/2025 23:56

Calling him a man is unlikely to amount to harassment I think given people are entitled to believe trans people remain their birth sex

Mmmnotsure · 16/02/2025 23:58

@Liverstreaming
JR may as well make her closing submissions in interpretive dance for all day good they’ll do her client.

That took me to a David Armand interpretative dance video on Youtube, which was cheering.

NoWordForFluffy · 17/02/2025 00:01

ThatsNotMyTeen · 16/02/2025 23:56

Calling him a man is unlikely to amount to harassment I think given people are entitled to believe trans people remain their birth sex

They are. You can't misgender 'with impunity', but I doubt that saying DU shouldn't be in the F CR because he's a man would fall into that category anyway. It's a factual statement as to why he shouldn't be in there.

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 17/02/2025 00:04

I presume the First Minister and the Prime Minister as well as Health Ministers will be asked about this. This is huge.

Appalonia · 17/02/2025 00:11

Jerabilis · 16/02/2025 23:37

@Szygy Here you go:

https://telegraph.co.uk/gift/b9c7b725debc389b

Over 1000 comments already

Show quote history

Those comments are so heartening, feels like the damn has finally broken, the amount of outrage there is at this. Such a long way from the days of #nodebate...

rebmacesrevda · 17/02/2025 00:13

toomanytrees · 16/02/2025 23:33

Has Sandy had any other "conduct hearing"? I'm having a hard time following the hospital's (shambolic) process.

😂 It's so hard to tell, isn't it?
It seems there's been various comms between departments, during which nobody has managed to pin down what actually (allegedly) happened, and no evidence of anything was produced. Regardless, ED insisted on suspension, in advance of an imaginary incident that might happen!
I think Sandie had a meeting (maybe two) but left none the wiser as to what she was actually accused of, so unable to defend herself. The whole thing seems to be based on hurt feelings caused by Dr U's overactive imagination. I think the suspension was continued to buy time, as they knew Dr U would move to a different department, and then it'd be safe to bring Sandie back, without ever having to address the alleged (imagined) offences against him.
Shambolic indeed.

GrumpyMenopausalWombWielder · 17/02/2025 00:14

"But they will have carried on holding crisis talks throughout the hearing. To go ahead knowing what they know now is just bonkers."

More so because they've got the undisclosed documents. They know what we don't & what SP's legal team suspect but can't yet prove or confirm.

It is utterly bonkers. With knobs on.

Mollyollydolly · 17/02/2025 00:16

I just can't get my head around this. If they told her about this on day 2 of the tribunal isn't that bullying and harassment in itself. I think I'm going to spontaneously combust.

SlackJawedDisbeliefXY · 17/02/2025 00:16

Bannedontherun · 16/02/2025 23:43

Upthread someone said maybe they are going to exonerate her as mitigation/defence in the tribunal case

I cannot see how that would help them.

As for Sandie i hope that all the light that has been shone, the deep pockets of her supporter can actually empower her enough to … well just well laugh straight in their faces.

And say to them how many pounds do you want to pay me?

I know i would.

IANAL. I wondered if this might prevent 'deeper enquiries'
Ok there is no case to answer, so no reason to ask to see BMA records or DU's phone

FannyCann · 17/02/2025 00:17

Utterly shocked by this.
I see ED will be giving evidence or something at the disciplinary. I'd have thought she'd be off sick with shame after her performance at the tribunal. I hope Sandie is able to look her in the eye and win a stare down during the proceedings.

People in the comments in the Telegraph are sharing the email address of the CEO if it hasn't already been shared here.

"The Chief Executive of Fife NHS can be emailed -
[email protected]
I have just emailed her outlining my disgust and asking her not to sack Nurse Peggie. I hope others do too. We need to stand up for what is right, decent and proper."

TriesNotToBeCynical · 17/02/2025 00:22

FannyCann · 17/02/2025 00:17

People in the comments in the Telegraph are sharing the email address of the CEO if it hasn't already been shared here.

I can see Carol Potter having a compulsory appointment to explain herself (if that is her pronoun) to judge quite soon.

needmoresheep · 17/02/2025 00:26

So because DU has high up church connections in Fife who probably have lots of influence Fife NHS are going ahead with the witch burning. Has DU’s mum said to NHS Fife CEO and Head of HR not to worry as she has squared a deal with the god squad?

My money is on their publicity team all job hunting as this story isn’t going to die down.

It is making the whole medical profession look like a bunch of idiots being run by clowns

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