Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 16

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Thread 11 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555145-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-11

Thread 12 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555687-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-12

Thread 13 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556235-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-13

Thread 14 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556407-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-14

Thread 15 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556803-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-15

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, 25 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Cathryn McGahey - Bar Council Ethics Committee's VC (24 May)
Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)
Colin Cook - Head clerk at GCC (24 May)
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing (25 May)
Kathryn Cronin - barrister at GCC (25 May)
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge (26 May)
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers (26 May)

To Come

Closing arguments for AB, GCC, and SW (20 June)

Tough choice....

Erm.....I mean they all did such a terrific job, so can we just pause to give all of them a huge huge round of applause to show our appreciation for their work in helping our cause!

Much applause, whistling and foot stomping, and the crowd are on their feet giving it their all

5 minutes later. OK everyone can we can calm things down abit.

Right on with awards

For best supporting role outside of the company....the winner is K M. Unfortunately they can't be here today so they have sent their mum, support 🐕, 🐱 🐎🐦 🐇 🍟🍫 and solicitor to collect their award.

In third place can I welcome Judge Mich....oh sorry correction. after receiving 7 complaints, the third place position now goes to KM who is now identifying as a chambers barrister. Sorry Michelle (well it was only fair she was the one that lost out on the prize!!)

In second place it's the fantastically confused Cathryn.......come on up CM.

And finally the one you have all been waiting for...in first place it's..... Stephanie yay.

Can we also take this opportunity to thank the remaining barristers and staff. We honestly couldn't have done all this without you. Sspecial shout out to David R forg his ingenious idea of listening in to conversations and tell tailing . Well done DR.

Oh shit can someone get that horse out of here.

Chaos ensues and @BenCoopersSupportWren that Ben had lent KM for the evening is mortally wounded by KMs support cat.

screen fades to black.

Had me going, too. Brilliant - thanks for that!

Chaos ensues and @BenCoopersSupportWren that Ben had lent KM for the evening is mortally wounded by KMs support cat.

I oppose that scene! That would be the saddest death since the fate of Little Nell gripped the population of the UK and the US. For the US, it would be this generation's A Girl Named Sooner.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Girl_Named_Sooner

I know I felt slightly bad about it, but it's @BenCoopersSupportWren own fault. They were offered the same contract as everyone else but insisted on a clause to recieve 10% more profit than the rest of us. Well I'm afraid that's just not on. There will be no favouritism in this thing. All for one and one for all.

Kidding, in the next episode ben is seen thankfully giving the vet who valiantly spent ten hours in surgery supergluing individual feathers back on.

There...happy ending. please stop with the hate!

Bugger, a hug he was giving him a hug. I missed that bit.

Or like many an opera…..

I agree! This CAN'T happen!

What could happen is that the emotional support cat (herein after referred to as the ESC)could go to savage Ben's Wren (what a nice ring that has to it . . Ben's Wren . . . ) anyway, do to savage the Wren and Wren holds up a tiny wing.

"Emotional Support Cat" Wren tweets gently "Is this really a job for a cat? Is "emotionally supporting" someone not something that a cat does secretly, but would die under thumbscrews rather than admit?"

And the cat will stop and say "Well . . . I have had a bit of stick from next door's Manchester terrier about it. . . . And the other cat's don't actually say anything, but they do smirk behind their paws when they've been telling us how they have their owners run ragged fussing about them, and then they just shake their tail at them and sneer at all their efforts . . .even when we all know that the cats are usually fibbing, and will pull out all the stops if their owners really need them . . . It does humans good to know they aren't really in charge. It's being cruel to be kind."

"Of course it is" says Wren. "They have to learn that life doesn't always give them what they want. We all do." adds hastily - "Except cats, obviously - Apex Predator etcetcetc"

The ESC nods. Light is dawning. The ESC has been peaked.

Wren says "The kindest thing you could do for your human is let them see that no-one can go against Nature."

"You're right1 Bugger this "being kind" lark. I'm going to piss in her shoes!

They "high 5" each other, tiny wingtip to massive paw. The ESC turns to stalk away . . . then stops, looking puzzled . . has a strange feeling of having missed a trick . . . then pads on to seek the shoes.

Meanwhile Wren is back safe in Ben's beard, lighting a calming fag with a trembling wing, and reaching for the gin bottle.

@Emotionalsupportviper I think I love you 😍

So funny.

Again o.k.sorry for the seemingly offensive and premature death of Bens Wren, you're right it's nice sounding! I did correct in the next episode which had now been nicely padded out by yourselfs.

I read that "Sooner" thing and now I'm crying!

I hope you're all happy. 😠

@BenCoopersSupportWren is really not going to be happy with me. So hi sorry, can't find a thingy for 🐦 seed so here 💐

Yes - I saw your correction, but after I'd posted.

I do like the thought of the intense tension of the vet re-attaching 50,000 very, very tiny individual feathers . . .

We could have the anaesthetist anxiously watching the - er, anaesthetic thingy and frowning, a close up of the vet's gentle but focussed gaze above the mask, and the sweat on the brow, . . . a cool, efficient nurse dabbing off that sweat . . . camera swinging to the tiny form of the courageous little baldy Wren, tiny chest barely moving . . . feather after feather (probably best not to show them all getting glued on - it'll take a whole - this isn't Lord of the Rings) . . and then the recovery room . . . all watching nervously . . and then - A CHIRP! The fluttering of a tiny wing. The whistling tones "Christ! I could murder a mealworm."

Then jubilation - hugging, crying, air-punching, a weeping Ben crying "Thank you God! Thank you so much" - the usual stuff.

(This wren is going to be famous. I hope this doesn't go to his head.)

*take a while, not whole

@Emotionalsupportviper We could have the anaesthetist anxiously watching the - er, anaesthetic thingy and frowning, a close up of the vet's gentle but focussed gaze above the mask, and the sweat on the brow, . . . a cool, efficient nurse dabbing off that sweat . . . camera swinging to the tiny form of the courageous little baldy Wren, tiny chest barely moving . . . feather after feather (probably best not to show them all getting glued on - it'll take a whole - this isn't Lord of the Rings) . . and then the recovery room . . . all watching nervously . . and then - A CHIRP! The fluttering of a tiny wing. The whistling tones "Christ! I could murder a mealworm."

Careful or that imaginary 10%extra profits I mentioned earlier is going to be warranted by Ben's wren! Imagine the acting that will be required! So brave!!

You've just made me think of this-

I was mooching about the Frozen Warehous-ey place earlier (basically a massive Iceland) and discovered frozen bake your own Greggs cookies. As I live in the middle of bloody nowhere and can't pop out to the shops without forward planning, having frozen biscuits seemed like a good idea for biscuit related emergencies.

In terms of the locusts, I have seen people hide frozen treats in vegetable bags/boxes in order to bamboozle their offspring.

😂😂😂

I see Ben's Wren as an actor of the Old School - smoking jacket, cigarette in foot-long holder (like Audrey Hepburn), "dahling-ing" everybody and giving out lots of air-kisses.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Wren playing Hamlet this time next year , TBH . . . 💀

It's weird how MI5 weren't/aren't all over this - how our country's entire legal and political systems and freedoms could go down the shitter so quickly.

I know the answer is: because MI5 have probably 'had the training' (thank you, PC Gul), but dear fucking god could no-one really see this being a problem for national security, that our social and political infrastructure is so vulnerable to propoganda?

But then I look again at Michelle Brewer - is she just a 'useful idiot' being trained up for SIAC?

There's something really fucking wrong about all this, at a national security level.

It's weird how MI5 weren't/aren't all over this - how our country's entire legal and political systems and freedoms could go down the shitter so quickly.

Yes, this is the thing I find so disturbing. If something as fundamental as the reality of sexual dimorphism of all mammals can be denied, what the fuck else is possible? Basically anything.

I'm still reeling that CM didn't even pause for second to consider whether her tortured analogy between lesbians not wanting to be converted to heterosexual and apartheid was a teensy bit racist given that AB is a black lesbian. She was super pleased with herself for coming up with the analogy - using it several times - and clearly hadn't had even a moment's internal thought along the lines of 'AB's black - maybe this is a bit....racist?'

I suspect that some of these woke warriors are so brainwashed and convinced of their own superiority they are incapable of self reflection or the concept that they could ever get anything wrong. Which are worrying traits in lawyers and particularly in judges. And almost satirical given most of them are white and middle to upper class (now, even if their roots aren't). Truly the upside down.

I have caught up! I kept getting to the end of thread, moving to next one and seeing it was already full. It was both heartening and ... not!

I have so enjoyed these threads - I add my thanks to icky for steering the ship so masterfully.

I hope all children are feeling better and patient(s) have recovered from surgery / migraines. I'm sorry too for the tinned tomatoes fare being suffered through.

I'm going to book 20 June off so I can watch along. I still don't know what BC sounds like & want a chance to hear his Support Wren.

I also don't like Jamie Dodgers but did make the pimpmysnack version a few years ago. I'm told it was good but as I don't like them, didn't try it.

I can't help but feel a few of you (ahem, forgive me) may have missed the point about bourbons and custard creams - they are for dunking. Ideally in tea, but coffee will do at a pinch.

I haven't yet decided if I'm going to go back to the Tribunal Tweets and read those from beginning (I've only dipped in & out of a few).

Do you think it's worthwhile?

P.S. - for their position & outrageous comments, CM is my favourite for most damaged reputation (individual category)

I'm going to book 20 June off so I can watch along. I still don't know what BC sounds like & want a chance to hear his Support Wren.

When this is all over, could someone persuade BC to record a message to his MN fans & put it on YouTube? Then everyone would get a chance to hear him.

Whoever begged me for Crunch Creams, sorry, no sooner purchased than consumed, don't always make it home.
Worst lawyer award is very difficult, but I think Cathryn McGahey for her awful analogies took the biscuit! I felt so upset that Allison had to hear that bullshit. It was particularly upsetting because I really did think she might say that her original advice was flawed and became erroneous when sexed up, so to hear her double down was incredible.

The emperor has no clothes "I'm still reeling that CM didn't even pause for second to consider whether her tortured analogy between lesbians not wanting to be converted to heterosexual and apartheid was a teensy bit racist given that AB is a black lesbian. She was super pleased with herself for coming up with the analogy - using it several times - and clearly hadn't had even a moment's internal thought along the lines of 'AB's black - maybe this is a bit....racist?'"

Maybe CM really believes she doesn't see colour! And therefore is unable to see that not all occasions in history are suitable teaching moments for all occasions in well .. history!

She therefore lacked the innate ability to realise that she was just about to say something really fucking stupid. Repeatedly!

Crunch creams are particularly delicious . . . .

Especially Golden Crunch creams 😘

I can't help but feel a few of you (ahem, forgive me) may have missed the point about bourbons and custard creams - they are for dunking. Ideally in tea, but coffee will do at a pinch.

@ThinkWittyThoughts

🙀my mind is literally blown

50 bloody years I've been suffering them dry!!! FFS