Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 16

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Thread 11 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555145-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-11

Thread 12 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555687-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-12

Thread 13 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556235-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-13

Thread 14 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556407-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-14

Thread 15 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556803-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-15

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, 25 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Cathryn McGahey - Bar Council Ethics Committee's VC (24 May)
Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)
Colin Cook - Head clerk at GCC (24 May)
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing (25 May)
Kathryn Cronin - barrister at GCC (25 May)
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge (26 May)
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers (26 May)

To Come

Closing arguments for AB, GCC, and SW (20 June)

Oh bloody hell, let's not derail the final (in a wonderful series of support threads!) thread by discussing India W.

Nor should we rise to people who come along to say "I'm here to silence you" because we are all here on these threads FOR ALLISON - she's fighting a battle not to be silenced or censored or punished for saying what she believes to be true. I for one won't be derailed in my support for Allison. These threads (including this one) are testament to her bravery and we are all here to keep fighting for the right to speak up, for her and for all of us.

So anybody who wants to silence us, feel free to keep reporting away, as is your right. You don't have to come here and tell us you are trying to silence us. We know people want us to just shut the fuck up. We aren't going to shut up. So keep reporting away and MNHQ can keep making their decisions. We shouldn't be derailed from the original purpose of these threads by engaging with the people who admit they want us to shut up.

Lets ignore any goady derailing fuckery and let's keep our eyes on the prize.

I made a giant Jaffa cake cake once. Sponge, orange jelly, chocolate covering. It was fucking amazing. It even had the little lines pattern on the top.

i’m about as far from a bully as you can imagine.

FWR has been dealing with the consequences, restrictions, and social creep of wholesale departure from material reality for years. I'm still taken aback at what experience has taught us to encompass as manifestation of the imagination of others.

Welcome @Feckedupbundle - the new signifier is looking well on you.

And, more admiration coming the way of the thought provoking Wine with Women with the 2 Helens. So much material to muse on in that chat.

I thought that this board was intended as a place for open minded, respectful debate, while keeping to the guidelines established by MN for that purpose?

Not everyone reading this agrees with Allison Bailey’s position. Does that mean I’m not welcome in the discussion?

I must be the only woman in the world who detested them growing up. But I have always disliked oranges. They are sticky AND slimy.

Thank you, icky, for the wonderful reportage. I have enjoyed my vicarious participation on these threads.

Yes @Helen8220. This is not the right thread. If you'd like to start another one to share your perspective, I'll happily engage with you.

Firstly, you NEVER stand on Jaffa cakes!!!

I love a packet of Jaffa Cake. I eat all round the edges, then shove the rest in. I also like the M&S Jaffa's, very nice. 😋

Wine with Women is great. Though not for the easily offended regarding pronouns.

Did anyone watch Maya? episode 1.

Frankly I think IW lost my respect when they started insisting they are a 'real woman' or a 'cis woman' (even though I detest 'cis')

So in which case, I will not use their preferred pronouns. Where is their respect for us?*

And I do object to someone coming on to this thread (again) to tell us off and report posters. Yet again it's 'women, #bekind'.

No.

*note, though, that I have used neutral pronouns

Ben's should be lengthy. But the others?

Stonewall. Everyone hates us.

Garden court. We have looked inwardly, and we did nothing wrong. Allison was our friend and we still don't understand why she just didn't talk to us.we are collectively very upset at her hateful behaviour towards us. Confused face! Sad face! Alternate!

Has anyone else had "Pimm's" (or possibly "Pim's", can't remember the spelling), the oddly-named French equivalent of Jaffa cakes? They come in loads of flavours, including raspberry and pear.

Do they come in cutted up pear though..?

Anyway.

Bahlsen Choco Leibniz are the best .

<gavel>

I think Mr H should include a TED talk on how to use Twitter in his final submission.

"So, there's a speech bubble button...."

The 20th is a clear day for me at the moment and I intend to keep it that way.
Shame we can’t all meet up in a pub and watch it live on a big screen.

There was a blog/website years ago where some guy made giant versions of all sorts of things - he made a massive human head-sized creme egg IIRC as well as a giant jaffa cake.

I like the Tesco Polish jaffa cakes - loads of different flavours and nicer ones than when McVities do their odd Cranberry or Cherry ones.

Dear Garden Court Chambers, (except Allison)

Hey Guys, evening, hope it’s not too late, what with it being nearly 8 pm on a Friday evening and what with the Jubilee coming, and I know some of you will be busy doing…. Stuffff.

Should I write this an official complaint or just a quick hey guys WTF?

It’s a hard choice having gotten intimately acquainted with the finer points of your complaints procedure recently.

I get from that you’ll probably infer that I’ve read the details of your actual complaints procedure. I have to say though…

Why? Why would you think that?

I mean that is the most obvious logical conclusion that an intelligent person, especially a chamber full of legal bods would jump to.

However, I took a leaf out of your books and read a few tweets about a case you’re currently involved with. I was VERY careful not to check any of the replies, good tip!!!,

Oh and listened to a couple of your current and ex staff talk at great great length, with much mangling of the language I know as English, and not a lot of fine detail all about how you consider your complaints procedure to work.

Yeah! Not going to go there! I’m sure you’ve got the picture by now, and most certainly what happens when you annoy the many many versions of Allison that are out here in the world.

So just a quick suggestion before I go. Do better!

Regards Boiled.

Brilliant. Have a support biscuit from me.

There was a blog/website years ago where some guy made giant versions of all sorts of things - he made a massive human head-sized creme egg IIRC as well as a giant jaffa cake.

Yes! Was it called something like pimpmysnack.com? There was a giant twiglet and a giant custard cream as well.

Oh my God, how do I know this when Andrew Hochhauser doesn't even know how to use Twitter?

I really hope he doesn't, I think there was a collective groan up and down the country. It just gives you awful flashbacks of trying to teach your parents tech. <runs away screaming>

As much as I moaned when AH did his cross examination, I did think he did a good job with Allison's testimony.

I just find the cross examinations boring as it's all just agreeing with him.

Please allow me to introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
I've been around for a long, long years

I come bearing 🍪for all
/also twirling my new name about

Have loved catching up on Allison's case via these threads. So many women listening and analysing as the GCC mob said so many of the quiet bits out loud. A real community of women supporting a very courageous woman.

I was specially pleased when adult daughter actually told me about the case yesterday when we met for lunch. Apparently the "lesbians not wanting to have sex with men who self identify as women being akin to South Africa and racism" has spread far and wide - and been met with horror.

No matter what the outcome is, the extreme levels of male arrogance and entitlement (sometimes enabled by women) have been displayed for all to see. Thank you Allison for that.

Man of wealth and toast, surely...

A real community of women supporting a very courageous woman.

This is so important. We must get behind the brave women that are taking on these herculean tasks to make life better for all women.

Speaking of which. I think Sarah's fundraising only has 1 day left for gardening purposes if anyone has anything to spare. The link is on her twitter. (please, please do not ask for twitter tutoring, I may kill you). 😁

twitter.com/SarahSurviving/

I can't find a jaffa cake on there, but... www.pimpthatsnack.com/project/ten-tonneocks-teacake/

@GodisaBC thanks, I shall keep safe for an emergency.

I'm still getting working my way through some good looking but bad tasting fairy cakes, as once the cat had licked one no-one else wanted one!