Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 16

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Thread 11 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555145-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-11

Thread 12 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555687-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-12

Thread 13 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556235-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-13

Thread 14 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556407-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-14

Thread 15 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556803-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-15

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, 25 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Cathryn McGahey - Bar Council Ethics Committee's VC (24 May)
Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)
Colin Cook - Head clerk at GCC (24 May)
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing (25 May)
Kathryn Cronin - barrister at GCC (25 May)
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge (26 May)
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers (26 May)

To Come

Closing arguments for AB, GCC, and SW (20 June)

Is it possible it was thought better not to release it during this hearing, and it will pop up on Monday?

Ah, biscuits you say? Well now, let me tell you about biscuits...

(running time 35 minutes)

Oops, that was to Helenandsomenumbers

Nothing frivolous about biscuits!

That’s true. If there’s one thing we can all agree on, despite our differences, it’s the crucial importance of biscuits.

We'll have to agree to differ on that one @Helen8220 .

I think it's important to use sex-based pronouns rather than preferred.

Willoughby has the right to ask people ti use Willoughby's preferred pronouns - people have the right to decline to do so.

Sarcasm is my native tongue

Seriously thanks everyone

I have this problem too. (Worse, DS1 who is gay believes me to be transphobic). DH and - to some extent DS2 - glaze over when I start going on about it. They genuinely don't understand just how much male privilege they enjoy/are displaying.

@Helen8220 - you are right!

Biscuits will always be paramount!

Mmmmmm - lovely biscuits!

Also cake!

<disappointed that biscuit and cake emojis seem to have disappeared>

<is suddenly worried about the GIN> 😧

I don't think so - unlike Maya's Employment Appeal Tribunal, which dealt with GC issues broadly, the decision we're waiting for is specific to her employer and their treatment of Maya. But IADNAL.

Are you going to change your name? I biscuitthereforeIam has a nice ring to it.

Reminds me of that John Cleese's 'Rhubarb Tart Song' (google it - it's on YouTube). You're verse 2.😂

@Helen8220 -apologies

@ifIwerenotanandroid - also to you and all others I offended inadvertently.

I'll stick to the joy of biscuits

Yay cake!

as a parting thought
warning by Jenny Joseph

When I am an old woman I shall wear purple
With a red hat which doesn’t go, and doesn’t suit me.
And I shall spend my pension on brandy and summer gloves
And satin sandals, and say we’ve no money for butter.
I shall sit down on the pavement when I’m tired
And gobble up samples in shops and press alarm bells
And run my stick along the public railings
And make up for the sobriety of my youth.
I shall go out in my slippers in the rain
And pick flowers in other people’s gardens
And learn to spit.
You can wear terrible shirts and grow more fat
And eat three pounds of sausages at a go
Or only bread and pickle for a week
And hoard pens and pencils and beermats and things in boxes.
But now we must have clothes that keep us dry
And pay our rent and not swear in the street
And set a good example for the children.
We must have friends to dinner and read the papers.
But maybe I ought to practise a little now?
So people who know me are not too shocked and surprised
When suddenly I am old, and start to wear purple

No need to worry! They're all still there

Absolutely. We're not living in a state that insists on compelled speech (yet) surely? Though the imposition of non-crime hate incidents (slapped down by the Court of Appeal in December) was a nice try.

THE CAKE HAS ALSO GONE !!! 😦

<weeps>

🍰🎂Don't panic, there is lots of cake.

🐹🐰🐶🐮🐭🐨and many other delightful animals . . .

Oh, thank God - I've found the and

<relieved>

I have had to work and been unable to watch, but its been one hell of a case/ride.
The threads have been my only access and I've been behind reading them, I've just finished the previous thread.
Its been intense for me at such a remove, cant imagine the stress closer in.
Anyway a roundabout way of saying yes to all the gin for every single one of us.
And no matter the outcome (please God it's good for allison) at least the blaze of sun has done plenty of good.

Thank you, ickky, for taking on the headspace for a June 20th thread.

Looking forward to the film. Do we have to fundraise?

Someone tweeted that the dog playing the support animal would be paid - is that right? - rather than working pro-bonio.

Someone tweeted that the dog playing the support animal would be paid - is that right? - rather than working pro-bonio

Indeed, and I’m glad we can do so civilly.

Just to explain where I’m coming from, I think it depends on context. If someone in a workplace intentionally uses the wrong pronoun for a colleague in their presence, that might be bullying or harassment. If they just politely avoided using their pronouns that’s not.

In an online context like this, the service provider sets the rules for what is acceptable, and mumsnet’s guidelines provide that referring to trans women as men, or trans men as women, is generally not permitted.

LOL at pro-bonio

Thank god for that.

Now, all this cake, biscuit and gin chat is making me hungry and thirsty. I’m off for a 🍕and a 🍷