Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 14

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:

AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Thread 11 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555145-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-11

Thread 12 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555687-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-12

Thread 13 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556235-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-13

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Katherine McGahy - Bar Council Ethics Committee's VC (24 May)
Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)
Colin Cook - clerk at GCC (24 May
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, to concluded on 25th May)
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing
Kathryn Cronin - barrister at GCC

To come:

Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge.
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers

MB is so unbelievably unpleasant, in her mannerisms and attitude. I can barely continue to watch/listen to her. Ugh.

Again and again it gets shown: anyone or any organisation or job role that gets into this ideology ceases to be able to do anything else but forward the politics of that ideology while trampling over every other person or consideration or responsibility in its path. It removes all capacity to do the job.

BC - brings in Stonewall

Get the L Out shouted 'trans persons are rapists'?

I don't believe that.

she thinks everything not TW centred is transphobic doesn't she

Homophily again. DRINK!

Her evidence can be summed up as 'blah blah blah transphobic, blah blah transphobia blah blah....

Homophily again!

The beauty of all this is that he only has to show that Allison was discriminated against for her views. He doesn't have to justify her views.

But All these witnesses are doing that for him

BC takes her to something about 'Get the L Out' and says these people were accused of transphobia.

MB says they were making transphobic statements. Gives example of them saying trans persons are rapists.

BC says their views were not transphobic, they were the view that lesbians are same-sex attracted.

MB says some of them might have been but others were saying trans people are rapists.

Absolutely. If you were docketed to appear before her in any case that even touched on sex/gender matters you would not be able to have any confidence in her ability to do her job properly, without fear or favour. A scary person in a position of power.

and homophily again :)

Get the L out - MB says they had transphobic views.
BC says they want to recognise that lesbians are same-sex attracted.

MB dismisses and says maybe some of them are. But everyone else saying all Trans people - not trans prisoners - are rapists.

Where is she getting this shit from? Does she believe this is what she's arguing against?

Oh that's convenient. A "media outlet that I can't remember"

She’s actually demonstrating the very bigotry she denies she has with that.

Conflating “TW are more likely than women to be sex offenders” with “TW are mostly sex offenders” is so wrong, and proceeds directly from that bigotry. I really wanted BC to pick up on that!

I guess it’s the same as the one who shared a room with her (DR?) who heard the words “some TW rapists are held in women’s prisons” as “all TW prisoners are rapists”.

These people are so deeply mired in their delusion they actually hallucinate what other people are saying.

I have never seen any lesbians saying 'trans people are rapists'???

She says they were saying this at London Pride but then says she wasn't at London Pride...

MB: some protesters were saying that all transpersons are rapists

[really?]

BC did you consider Get the L Out to be transphobic
MB yes
BC the views they express that lesbians are same sex attracted not same gender attracted. Different to Stonewall.
MB waffle, waffle, waffle, yes

"I wasn't at the London Pride" - not your favourite beer than Michelle?

So she wasn't at the pride event, and can't remember what media outlet, but explicitly remembers how transphobic it was.

I just said that to my husband. I've never seen a banner or placard saying that. It would be all over the internet ALL THE TIME if it existed.

BC says this was about a specific case - a male who identified as a woman who was actually a rapist.

MB suggests there was reporting about people saying trans persons are rapists. But she doesn't have the material to back this up. Says it's not okay to say this.

No one who is GC says trans persons Michelle.

And Gay Star News is not MSM

MB claiming to have an excellent memory at this point so that bodes well.

MB states she is not on twitter

Not on Twitter - house!

"As you know I'm not on twitter" - that's a bingo square isn't it?