Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 14

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:

AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Thread 11 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555145-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-11

Thread 12 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555687-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-12

Thread 13 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556235-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-13

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Katherine McGahy - Bar Council Ethics Committee's VC (24 May)
Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)
Colin Cook - clerk at GCC (24 May
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, to concluded on 25th May)
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing
Kathryn Cronin - barrister at GCC

To come:

Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge.
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers

He is surely going to come straight in with 'what about the Black Lesbian in the office's lived experience of male violence that you threw under a bus'???

Yes on a break

Loving the data in the chat....

Yes

i didn’t catch how long

She's got a lot of internalised misogyny

Your 'middle class' may well be wrong:

Michelle Brewer was born to a teenage single mother and lived on a council estate until the age of 11. The family was on benefits and came (proudly) from a line of miners and dockyard workers.

Could explain her need to white-knight everywhere?

Does Birkenstock = lesbian?

Back to the problem from the Maya Forstater tribunal. GC feminists can hold these beliefs but if they talk about them in any way other than we or I (here it's MB) consider okay, that is unacceptable.

How can GC feminists talk about them in a way that you find acceptable?

Crickets.

Absolutely.

Agree Clymene. I just wish these women wouldn't decide they can consent for the rest of us.

This woman is so sure of the righteousness of her views she is literally incapable of hearing anything that contradicts them.

I’m audio only. Can you share the topic?

Exactly this.
and she WILL NOT allow herself to see it.

I love white people sneering at other white people because they’re white.
its fucking hilarious

She really isn’t far from the complete TRA extremists on Twitter.

In fact I don’t think she actually believes the few crumbs of sanity she’s thrown in there, like saying sex does matter sometimes, I think she’s only saying that for the optics.

Just my opinion, obviously.

At the rate this is going, I'm hoping @ickkyhas both the next thread and then the one after that in reserve.

Louise Somerville has provided the MoJ stats from the case MB quoted which say that 50% of transwomen in prison are in for sex offences.

Gets told off

I can just imagine her in court ticking off a victim for using the wrong pronouns for their assailant. She would genuinely think that was ok.

I don't want to nitpick, but are there many trans refugees of colour? I'm sure there are some, but she makes it sound like they're a significant proportion of the refugee population.

So many things I need to go back & check TT for. I feel quite stunned.

With some of these witnesses I think, 'Imagine trying to work with him/her!' MB is one of those.

So glad this woman is in the chair and has to (try and) justify herself.

She is Stonewall all the way but this is going to help Allison's case isn't it. As all the witnesses have testified, MB was the driver of the discrimination against Allison due her very clear prejudice, as shown in her statements this morning.

Intersectionality is so hardwired into her brain that she doesn't even mention that's what she's on about. You can't discuss TW's privilege because of male, homeless, refugee, people of colour who self-id as women. FFS!

And here we have yet another highly unpleasant, quite staggeringly arrogant and self satisfied misogynist who believes that there are her and her mates who should be unquestioned in their superiority and authority as the ruling class.

And then there's the special pets, which she will head pat and patronise as she sees fit so long as they stay in their box and are suitably grateful - Allison failed there - and then there's the scum. Who can shut up and do what they're told, and are just too grubby and beneath her to bother with.

How the fuck have we got these last century throw backs in positions of power?!

The. Trans women agenda is chock full of male privilege.
plushness e I’m gender. Critical and I’m certainly not a academic, l worked in engineering.
Bingo - knows people of colour.
and they don’t have the benefits of the patriarchy,

Good bit of othering there

So, MB has decided that the TW of colour who were seeking refugee status are the most vulnerable of us all and that means that we must accept Karen White raping our vulnerable female prisoners. Women who, presumably, she has the capacity to jail?

I'd love a pair of Birkenstocks, me.

I've noticed BC using 'You understand the arguement that xyz' a lot this morning, which I hadn't noticed on previous days.

I'm assuming it's his way of making it clear that MB is fully aware of the perfectly reasonable stance of those of us that hold GC views and it seems like a good way of introducing the batshittery of the other side to members of the panel / members of the public who might not be familiar.