Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 14

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:

AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Thread 11 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555145-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-11

Thread 12 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555687-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-12

Thread 13 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556235-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-13

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Katherine McGahy - Bar Council Ethics Committee's VC (24 May)
Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)
Colin Cook - clerk at GCC (24 May
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, to concluded on 25th May)
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing
Kathryn Cronin - barrister at GCC

To come:

Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge.
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers

She doesn’t even understand the idea of male privilege, how it works!

Link in chat

She is a white middle class privileged women who is seeking to justify her discrimination against a black lesbian sexual abuse survivor and paint herself as the righteous one

What about female refugees, and their rights to safety, privacy and dignity?

It's a variant on the 'comfortable shoes' line with a extra dose of their 'posh' lesbians

=> lesbians are useless and not worthy of respect. All 'proper' women wear high heels I guess.

This, and the rubbish about lesbians & apartheid. Is Allison Bailey invisible to these women or what?

Only just logged in.
Cannot believe that this person is a judge!

MB says they were dealing with clients in the hostile immigration environment. Expressing her frustration. Felt GC rhetoric was unbalanced.

BC points out that this wasn't his question. He is simply asking about her comments in relation to a different group. He says all the way through the training she is dismissive and disparaging about GC belief.

MB says she was dismissive on particular transphobic views. She articulates some things as transphobia. Yes. She was also dismissive of reliance on an articulation about privilege where that privilege didn't exist.

yea im dismissive waffle waffle waffle transphobic

I am RAGING that this woman is a judge.

No wonder we’re in such a state if unreconstructed zealots like her can be entrusted with that position.

MB - yes I will be dismissive of GC women's views. Absolutely I will and I feel justified an day of the week.

(Paraphrasing)

Doubling down on the "white Birkenstock wearers" bit has to look very bad when the plaintiff in this case is a black lesbian.

I absolutely hate the phrase "lived experience". It ranks alongside "my truth" in that I immediately assume the person using the phase is bullshit.

I feel the same Roaring.

How many trans people of colour are in the UK? (Genuine question.)

OMG, is this our "You're damn right I ordered the Code Red!" moment?

MB claims she was not disparaging of the idea that biological sex is immutable. Accepts she believes that GC feminists have said some transphobic things but she doesn't find their fundamental beliefs transphobic.

Break.

SO dishonest

It's not their views, it's they way they express it. Bingo!

Yes ACTUAL transpeople may not have privilege but the handmaidens and TRA high priests do. And are actually making life harder, not easier for transpeople and children with their inflexible dogma.

Bingo! It's not the beliefs they hold, it's the way they express them that can be transphobic.

Ahhhh

So, it's not the GC women's views that are the problem. It's them, as people.

GAH!! Had to mute because my phone went, and on answering it turned out to be a phone scammer. Now I'm back and it's all gone dark. On a break?

"God I hate it when people are really dismissive about other people on the grounds that they have loads of privilege which they don't in fact have."

In the context of claiming GC feminists are all white and middle-class. [cough] ALLISON BAILEY you absolute muppet! [cough]

MB: views not transphobic
ways they are manifested ARE

(As usual - you can have your views, but don't you dare express them)