Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 14

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:

AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Thread 11 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555145-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-11

Thread 12 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555687-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-12

Thread 13 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556235-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-13

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Katherine McGahy - Bar Council Ethics Committee's VC (24 May)
Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)
Colin Cook - clerk at GCC (24 May
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, to concluded on 25th May)
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing
Kathryn Cronin - barrister at GCC

To come:

Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge.
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers

Women's Place not fruitful to be having them around the table.

Because they believe trans women are men. And trans men are lesbians.

MB didn't want to create a homophily (but did).

I had to look that up but I like the word, and will be using it in future.

Homophily? A new word to me, but I suspect it bloody was!

Julie Bindel just joined 😀

I feel sorry for whoever is on Tribunal Tweets today trying to keep up with this word salad.

She has lost her smily face now and is most definitely cross.

This narrative that trans women follow cis male patterns of violence was transphobic.
BOOM

Will BC sweep away that waffle and ask MB simply to answer his question?

Now MB is trying to redirect to the complaint that transwomen follow male patterns of violence. She is suggesting that is transphobic.

(Again, not what she said. She said the view that transwomen aren't women is an issue.)

MB's comment (they don't like transpeople) about WPUK was prejudiced. MB trying to guess where Ben is going.

MB transwomen committing crime at same rates as males is transphobic

MB: 'homophily'

Rare example of that in the wild.

MB keeps telling BC where he is going to take her to, and off she goes there. Cue monologue.

She's saying it's transphobic to say that TW follow male patterns of violence.

Got to go to a meeting just as she does her shocked face at the suggestion that transwomen offend in the same pattern as any other men

if she is going to spend five minutes each time justifying something other than what hes actually asking, well we will still be here at 9 tonight. and shes just said i think that was transphobic in respect of something womens place said.

and now CIS men CIS men

Cis men!

MB says 'cis' men are more likely to be sex offenders than women, but the idea that transwomen are is very unreliable, and perpetuating that idea about transwomen prisoners is harmful.

MB believes that when someone transitions, their risks as a male of offending fall away.

She is refusing to answer the question he asked. I can do it for her:

No, it is not sexist to say that men are more likely to be sex offenders.

Yes she really waffles all around the place doesn't she?

I feel that the real MB is coming out!

What percentage of Trans prisoners are in prison for sex offences?

God she's a dangerous individual.

This really is the season finale isn't it?

MB again talking off the point. She was asked about her comment that WPUK just don't like trans people because they regard transwomen as men.

BC coming back to the fact that there is evidence that transwomen commit sexual offences at the same rate as men, and MB disputes this.

Woman's Place is transphobic - narrative that suggests transwomen are sexual predators etc is transphobic
MB - "CIS men - CIS men" (repeated aggressively)
case: FDJ, Mr Justice Swift - stats re transgender prisoners and sex offending - no connection between the two