Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 14

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:

AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Thread 11 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555145-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-11

Thread 12 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555687-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-12

Thread 13 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556235-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-13

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Katherine McGahy - Bar Council Ethics Committee's VC (24 May)
Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)
Colin Cook - clerk at GCC (24 May
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, to concluded on 25th May)
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing
Kathryn Cronin - barrister at GCC

To come:

Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge.
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers

Her face is reminding me of Morla

And she definitely is high priestess of this movement

All she was doing was providing a different perspective, raising up the voice of trans people whose views hasn't been heard

I think she's attractive and quite charismatic, in contrast to the majority of the witnesses we have seen so far (no offence intended to anyone and very much my own personal opinion.) I can see how she could have convinced colleagues that her position was entirely reasonable and entirely righteous.

High priest indeed.

There is nothing inherently bad about being married to a trans person. There is something bad about being non-consensually married to a person who is assuming a legal identity in the same sex as their spouse. MB absolutely does not appreciate this.

What is this claim that they hadn’t considered things from a trans perspective before?!

seriously!

Just about EVERYTHING had been done from the trans perspective! The spousal exit clause was pretty much the only thing that looked at anyone else’s perspective, at all.

I have pre posted the next thread here, just in case my internet goes off.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556803-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-15

I understand all those points but going back to the question.

GO BC

AH has been sitting with his hand over his eyes for a very long time.

EJ looks like she wants to say something...

‘I can see how she could have convinced colleagues that her position was entirely reasonable and entirely righteous.’

She couldn’t convince me what to have for my tea. She is evasive and arrogant. Demagoguery in plain sight.

Wow she REALLY believes in this ideology doesn't she? But cannot see the harm to women in all of this.

Oh so she was just representing the views of transpeople rather than sharing her own personal perspective? That is sneaky is fuck

MB in the 2018 training: if a spouse doesn't want to be married to the person who has transitioned,
it smacks of homophobic and transphobic. 😳

MB now: yes it could be rooted in prejudice; perspective of transppl not taken into account; seen as something 'bad' about being married to a transperson; spousal veto gives abusive spouses ownership and control over partner's body and identity and legal recognition

Nope, AH is for GC(C) - trying to undermine link between MB and Stonewall to undermine Allison's case.

this is going to be a tortuous few hours isn't it. I'm already starting to tune MB out.

thankfully its Thursday so my wonderful GC cleaner is here, bringing me cups of tea!

and seriously how many times is she going to say Mr Cooper

EJ is stopping her waffling

other people disagreed during training and she told them why they are wrong?

EJ politely suggests MB talking too much and too fast, and that is truth.

BC is letting MB speak at much greater length than she needs to. I wonder what his strategy is.

EJ not able to keep up with the monologue from MB

EJG can't keep up with MB's monologue!

I've been listening rather than watching for a bit, but going back to the screen MB looks considerably less composed already than she did 10 minutes ago.

MB: you probably feel that I am monologuing at you now

Suspect there will be a lot of monologuing.

Time passes.

Still monologuing.

JG: can't keep up with making notes of her evidence.

MB is talking far, far, far, far, far too much.