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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 14

1000 replies

ickky · 25/05/2022 16:40

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:

AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Thread 11 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555145-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-11

Thread 12 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555687-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-12

Thread 13 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556235-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-13

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Katherine McGahy - Bar Council Ethics Committee's VC (24 May)
Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)
Colin Cook - clerk at GCC (24 May
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, to concluded on 25th May)
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing
Kathryn Cronin - barrister at GCC

To come:

Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge.
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
LipbalmOrKnickers · 26/05/2022 08:54

@Penguintears hope all goes well today. Are they support stockings or support support stockings?

IDidntKnowItWasAParty · 26/05/2022 08:54

Good morning fellow vipers! Thanks for the threads ickky. Hope you're all ready for today. Support coffee and support cat in place here.

Next witness:
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at the relevant time, now left and is a judge (as of 31 January 2020, immigration & asylum: www.judiciary.uk/announcements/appointment-as-a-judge-of-the-first-tier-tribunal-immigration-and-asylum-chamber-michelle-brewer/ )

Role in the case: MB played a central role. Amongst other things:
MB prompted Shaan Knan (of Stonewall) to invite those present in a meeting at GCC to write to GCC Heads of Chambers to complain about AB (the meeting was LGBT Consortium’s Trans-Organisational Network Roundtable about the Office of National Statistics census; those present included Stonewall’s Head of Policy, Josh Bradlow, and members of the Stonewall Trans Advisory Group).
MB informed others at GCC that she would be in touch with Stonewall regarding AB’s tweets and informing them that she would be putting in a formal complaint against AB.

No bio available. A few pieces of background:

MB was a speaker at TransJustice Conference, 20 May 2016, hosted by GCC, covering: ‘Current challenges faced by trans and gender non-conforming people in the criminal justice system’, such as ‘the detention of trans women in male prisons’, and the ‘effect of non-disclosure of gender identity and history on the validity of sexual consent (i.e. so-called “gender deception” prosecutions)’.
www.gardencourtchambers.co.uk/events/transjustice-conference

MB was a speaker at the inaugural conference of the Trans Equality Legal Initiative (TELI) on 18 November 2016, which was sponsored and live-tweeted by GCC.
(Also speaking from GCC: Stephanie Harrison QC, Shu Shin Luh, Louise Hooper.
Other speakers included: Helen Belcher, Alex Sharpe, Jane Fae, Jess Bradley, Susie Green, Tara Hewitt).
www.gardencourtchambers.co.uk/events/trans-equality-legal-initiative-launch-conference
www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3374926-What-influence-does-TELI-have-on-government-public-services-and-charities-policies-Co-founders-include-Jess-Bradley-Tara-Hewitt-and-Michelle-Hudson

And this Facebook post shows MB’s views on lesbians who believe that sexual orientation is based on biological sex not “gender”.

Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 14
WildIris · 26/05/2022 08:54

Penguintears · 26/05/2022 08:48

Morning all. I am in my hospital room with genuine support stockings on 😆

Hoping I can see a bit of MB before I'm called for surgery.

Hope all goes well today!

WallaceinAnderland · 26/05/2022 08:55

I'm in the waiting room with my earmuffs on.

<keen>

ickky · 26/05/2022 08:57

Morning

Are we all sitting comfortably (or in support stockings) and waiting for the host join?

OP posts:
RocketPanda · 26/05/2022 08:58

Morning fellow dinosaurs 😉

I have tea in a thermos and a selection of Christmas nibbly bits I found in the freezer, and am in bed waiting with bated breath and bingo card.

Boiledbeetle · 26/05/2022 08:59

just been for a pee and i'm ready

WomensLandArmy · 26/05/2022 08:59

Checking in. Sick child less sick, fridge cleaning on hold. Torn about missing pop master at 10.30. Sacrifices we make!

LipbalmOrKnickers · 26/05/2022 08:59

Yes, waiting to go in now...

CatsOperatingInGangs · 26/05/2022 09:00

Is it me or does The Soothing Voice Man sound full of anticipation today?

IDidntKnowItWasAParty · 26/05/2022 09:00

Hope all goes well and you're back asap @Penguintears

LipbalmOrKnickers · 26/05/2022 09:00

We're in!

Chrysanthemum5 · 26/05/2022 09:00

Boiledbeetle · 26/05/2022 00:51

@SupportSpindle "And why and how have we, on here, been immune to whatever this fast-evolving social virus is?

Maybe we need to ask, what is different about us?"

Maybe it's because we actually don't have anything in common with each other, apart from, in the main, being women.

We share no common political affiliation, don't work in the same fields, don't attend the same religious setting. Don't share a bus together on the way to work. Don't drink in the same pub, etc.

We aren't in an artificial algorithm led echo chamber. And even those that are forced to listen to the sessions at work about gender identity and stuff are then able to give their head a wobble when they come on here.

This is probably right - I work in a place where gender ideology is rampant but it didn't feel right to me to prioritise gender over sex. If I didn't have MN to talk to other feminists maybe I'd have given up my fight against some of it before now

Penguintears · 26/05/2022 09:01

We're in!

ickky · 26/05/2022 09:01

We're in and there is a MB in the list.

OP posts:
WomensLandArmy · 26/05/2022 09:01

shut up hochy

Penguintears · 26/05/2022 09:02

I have blank screen and can't hear anything! Shall I try to reconnect?

Gabcsika · 26/05/2022 09:03

Mrskettleson · 26/05/2022 08:50

placemark. Today is going to be very interesting! I doubt i'll get anything done at all.

My husband is getting increasingly annoyed with me doing nothing all day.
Yesterday he did everything:
washing, cooking, tidying etc

he even stripped the bed and put new bedding on.

He's just come in to ask if I plan on doing anything at all today apart from being on "that thing all day".

I think I might have just lied to him.

😁

IDidntKnowItWasAParty · 26/05/2022 09:03

MB has an infurating smirk

WookeyHole · 26/05/2022 09:03

Another heathen.

Birdsweepsin · 26/05/2022 09:04

Gabcsika · 26/05/2022 09:03

My husband is getting increasingly annoyed with me doing nothing all day.
Yesterday he did everything:
washing, cooking, tidying etc

he even stripped the bed and put new bedding on.

He's just come in to ask if I plan on doing anything at all today apart from being on "that thing all day".

I think I might have just lied to him.

😁

😁

mcduffy · 26/05/2022 09:04

WomensLandArmy · 26/05/2022 08:59

Checking in. Sick child less sick, fridge cleaning on hold. Torn about missing pop master at 10.30. Sacrifices we make!

Can do it via BBC Sounds later!

CriticalCondition · 26/05/2022 09:05

Northern Irish accent??

LipbalmOrKnickers · 26/05/2022 09:06

Scottish I thought?

WookeyHole · 26/05/2022 09:06

Why is AH going first?

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