Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 14

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:

AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Thread 11 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555145-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-11

Thread 12 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555687-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-12

Thread 13 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556235-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-13

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Katherine McGahy - Bar Council Ethics Committee's VC (24 May)
Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)
Colin Cook - clerk at GCC (24 May
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, to concluded on 25th May)
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing
Kathryn Cronin - barrister at GCC

To come:

Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge.
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers

Maybe a willingness to question if we’re wrong? And/or a self image that doesn’t rely on being seen to be ‘a good person’.

Agree, she sounds good on paper there and female-focused. But yet…

I wonder if she has a trans-IDing child?

1 hour warning. aghhh where's my shopping delivery. Come on Sainsburys!

What would happen if she called in sick? A reschedule/postponement?

I think the judge would have someone at her house actually making sure she was on her deathbed sick

That would be quite the addition to the screenplay!

Sorry if I raised anyone's blood pressure by asking. The question just occurred to me and I don't have experience in courts etc so don't know how that sort of thing would work.

Last night I dreamt that I went to a conference and afterwards tried to engage a woman in conversation about support Twixes to see if she was a MNer.

She was not.

I think this case is getting to me.

She might be suffering from the same amnesia that seems to have gripped a lot of the GCC witnesses though.

Does the Sonia Appleby case mean that EJ Goodman will be very clued up on Mermaids?

Morning all. Okay, jobs are done, child is away to school and the cats are settled. Best wishes to Allison and good luck to all of us.

Checking in, ready for today!

Thanks everyone for the commentary!

Placemarking.
Really interested to see what MB brings to the tribunal today.

Brewer is no longer at GCC is that right? - Does this mean that she is not liable if Allison wins? - or is the claim applicable to all those who were tennants at the time of the alleged events?

Thanks for this, Embarrassing - the main topic of discussion re the tribunal is Cathryn McGahey's extraordinary remarks. Starts at pretty much 21.00 mins in.

But probably best saved till after today's events!

A couple of posters have mentioned future cases, Rachel Meade and Sarah Summers. I also think that Jo Phoenix has a case against the OU. From the other-side of the debate there are also the Webberly’s GMC hearings.

Slowly but surely the legal outcomes appear to be setting helpful lines in the sand for future cases:

Court of Appeal upholding the decision that a child’s “Mother” is recorded on a birth certificate . The judge said the Children Act 1989 provided that a mother has automatic parental responsibility for a child from the moment of birth, adding: "No-one else has that automatic parental responsibility, including the father."

The HoL ensuring “Mother” was used in the Ministerial and other Maternity Allowances Act 2021.

For Women Scotlands win in relation to Representation on Public Boards (Scotland) Act 2018. The judgment stated Women means a female of any age and that the % of the population in a protected characteristic was a relevant factor when considering the make up of Public Boards so 51% women but much lower % for gender reassignment.

Maya’s EAT judgement that a belief that sex is immutable and binary is a protected belief.

Sonja Appleby’s whistleblowing ET against NHS’s Tavistock and Portman trust. This links to the current Webberly’s cases.

Hopefully Maya and Allison cases will add to this list and help those that follow.

A big thank you to the brave women who are leading the legal charge on protecting hard won women’s rights.

Thanks for this, Embarrassing - the main topic of discussion re the tribunal is Cathryn McGahey's extraordinary remarks. Starts at pretty much 21.00 mins in.

Helen Joyce discusses Kirrin Medcalf in the video (some of which I found uncomfortable) and has written up KM's testimony here:

sex-matters.org/posts/updates/kirrin-medcalf/

I thought HJ had some astute comments about KM's insistence on the perceived danger of encountering AB or somebody similar to her in belief in lavatories. HJ wondered if KM was extrapolating from KM's own concerns in using a lavatory in line with KM's own gender identity and somehow that had been ill-expressed as concerns about AB.

The Wine with Women is a really good one. Both Helens are great and HJ is such an asset. Clear and concise. She could give David de Menezes a few pointers.

I have DGD today - gah! Bad timing, but will be relying on you all for your astute and amusing commentary between the cake baking & stories.

Dont forget @IamSarah and her case against Sussex Rape crisis for denying her single sex services.

That one makes my blood boil. To see how women, even women who have been victims of the worst kinds of sexual abuse, are expected to put aside any and all of their concerns, fears, reflex reactions to permit male bodied people into the spaces where they are at their most vulnerable.

It is abuse, perpetrated by the people who as supposed to help with the healing.

This one the emperors clothes are right off, with his cock out there for all to see.

And/or a self image that doesn’t rely on being seen to be ‘a good person’.

I've found since becoming a mother that I am much less easily embarrassed than I used to be. Undoubtedly a large part of that is all the inevitable public humiliations (public toddler screaming, breastfeeding modesty-fails etc) and realising that the sky doesn't fall in when they happen.

But I think it may be deeper than that: a change in priorities, maybe also an increased recognition that we can't control things, which includes other people's opinions of us. Concern for image (embarrassment) is replaced with concern for the important things (safety, people's real wellbeing)

Maybe it's no coincidence that this is all happening on Mumsnet .

Morning all. I am in my hospital room with genuine support stockings on 😆

Hoping I can see a bit of MB before I'm called for surgery.

Actually, coming back to what’s different about us.

I remember talking to my mum about voting maybe 25 years ago. She was of the opinion that Middle Aged women were most likely to be floating voters (and thus the people who actually swung who was in power. Her theory was those women are less likely to be ideologically attached to a single party because they weren’t the target market. They also were most likely to have to consider the impact of policies on not just themselves but everyone they act as caregivers to, so children and elderly family members, anyone in the family who needed additional support plus often neighbours or people who they volunteer to support.

maybe there’s something of that for us all. We’re used to having to consider EVERYONE and make decisions that aren’t necessarily popular with our social peers.

Support Twixes at the ready. Thank you so much to all those commenting and keeping us informed.

placemark. Today is going to be very interesting! I doubt i'll get anything done at all.

Yes. This.

@Penguintears hope all goes well for you today

@Penguintears hope it goes well, and quickly! Support stockings!!!!! Love it

Good luck @Penguintears , hope it all goes well.