NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #22

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It is planned that it will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21

Was Ellen MacKenzie in the American office and seemed to think that American laws applied in the UK?

There was a Garden Court Chambers barrister in Alison Bailey’s tribunal too. Another fanatical true believer. I think she was also a KC (QC the ) and did not have a good time with Mr Cooper.

@CrocsNotDocs No she is now a Judge and of the infamous bingate saga. Michelle Brewer?

I was actually at the hearing for Drake’s evidence and I don’t think she (or indeed any of the OU academic staff) quite realised how badly they came across - though even I was pleasantly surprised by the honestly written judgement (particularly the understated but brilliant paragraph 22)!

I think so- a judge now eh, Lord help us.

@CrocsNotDocs Also had a large hand in the courts benchbook bollocks terms.

@nauticant i agree your comment re other tribunals - but just to add Drake was not the most batshit witness in Jo’s case to listen to - though it seemed clear (to me) that Drake was ‘command control’ and the rest of the rotten bunch were just doing her bidding! Despicable people and as the judge so eloquently put - and did not meet the standard one would expect (from so called academics)!

Thanks again, @nauticant , who knew this would become your USP!!

Thinking back (again!) sorry @nauticantyou are quite right both (the unseen) Mackenzie and Brewer were very similar queen bees!

On a separate note if you are still want a final thread toll estimate I’m going to say 54 (😉) so 💐

I pray your right. And has someone with deep pockets behind her. Because this case has everything including a Doctor prepared to ignore actual women and ride rough shod over them not giving a shiny f*

I sincerely hope she is sitting back chilling out this weekend. The cards slowly tumbling and the wee break between now and July could very well go in her favour.

Have done some gardening there, Sarah.

A phrase well worth saving! 😄

And some people wonder why women don't want these men in our toilets!

<swipes the piece of banana bread off @INeedAPensieve plate whilst she's not looking>

guinnessguzzler · Today 15:47

Hello wims! Why are you all here on a Saturday and not cleaning your kitchens and making yourselves look pretty

Well, I'm not wim and the oven liner arrived from Dunelm on Tuesday, I haven't cleaned the oven and put it in yet.

Do I get a pass? I'm taking the hooliganatte away on Monday for half term. Can I get the sugar soap out next week?

Can I get the sugar soap out next week?

Only if you come do mine after. I'll pay your taxi fare.

EvilWolefGenius gave me some mind bleach after I got a mind-fart mental picture of Dr Beth in a frou-frou skirt. (Blame the frou-frou gerbils on the Bluestocking thread.) There’s a little bit left, so I’ll send it over to you. In return for some of that banana bread.

Ahh frou frou skirted doctors. What an image that conjures up.

(The handlebar moustache and the open shirt hairy chest look was not in the instructions I gave to the ai! Obviously the ai has its own opinions on the subject)

Archive version archive.is/XVE8G

As much as I think men should be able to wear what they want, and be a bloke in a dress - its not clothes that make you male or female - I don't think I'd want to be met with a hairy chest at the Doctors 😂

@Boiledbeetle AI has given him nasty chancres on his cheeks.
Is there a doctor in the house?

Yes, it's a shame that workplace regulations aren't replicated in service providing regulations.

But I meant it's more about the concept. If the concept holds true in the workplace, there is a very definite argument that it holds true elsewhere.

Maybe not enforceable on the basis of regulations, but if anywhere was dithering about providing single sex spaces because of transactivism, this would give strength to their spine.

Boiledbeetle

Only if you come do mine after. I'll pay your taxi fare.

Aww! Okaaay. Might be cheaper to hire 20 local cleaners than a return taxi from Newcastle...

Can someone give me a quick summary of what has happened? I have tried to keep up with the threads but have struggled

I think that’s right.

Why on earth was the single sex carve out made optional rather than compulsory...

To me the argument is simple: the risk only goes one way - women are no threat to men so mixed sex is always going to be inherently more detrimental to females - it exposes us to a risk of pregancy and rape that men can never face. The very notion of “trans” as a concept will always harm women more than men. So it’s inherently sex discriminatory.

I think that’s why it enrages me so. How can you deny biology? Just how?!

The EHRC has reminded NHS Fife and the Scottish government that they must, "have an accurate understanding of the operation of the Equality Act as it relates to the provision of single-sex services and spaces", which is pretty much telling them that they are getting it wrong at the moment.