Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 17

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April, witness testimony concluded on the 26th May. Closing arguments for council will be on the 20th June. I don't know if the existing links and pins will work. I will email nearer the time to check.

If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access.
Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 20th June 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:

AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Thread 11 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555145-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-11

Thread 12 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555687-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-12

Thread 13 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556235-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-13

Thread 14 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556407-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-14

Thread 15 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556803-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-15

Thread 16 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4557036-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-16

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, 25 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Cathryn McGahey - Bar Council Ethics Committee's VC (24 May)
Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)
Colin Cook - Head clerk at GCC (24 May)
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing (25 May)
Kathryn Cronin - barrister at GCC (25 May)
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge (26 May)
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers (26 May)

To Come

Closing arguments for AB, GCC, and SW (20 June)

Break. (DRINK!)

Allison's GC views being characterised as 'incoherent, not founded in fact and grounded in prejudice.'

I'm going to have to go out and split some logs with an axe.

Idisagree: 'She's trying to argue that they aren't beliefs and therefore don't fall under the Equality Act at all. They're only opinions and only about SW according to Stonewall.*'
*
Surely this is a strike out argument at best?

@Pluvia, pretty much sums up the views of the opposition in my opinion. What a shower of shit.

Gin? Is it too early? Because I’m going to need something to get through this incoherent waffle and inebriation might make it make sense.

If I was Judge Goodman I’d be outside for a nice calming cigarette right now and banging my head on a wall between drags.

Allison's GC views being characterised as 'incoherent, not founded in fact and grounded in prejudice.'

Stonewall never fails to deliver in the "you can't be serious" department, even in a situation like this. "Incoherent" is so rich coming from that lot. WTF is incoherent about "sex is real and it matters?"

Allison is the coherent one. Allison is the one whose arguments are founded in science and biological reality. Allison is the one who's been consistent throughout and can explain and justify her beliefs. And they have the nerve to call her (and by extension me and all the other GC women listening in) incoherent, prejudiced and not grounded in fact. What factual evidence or coherence can transgender ideology offer? We saw KM and the support team!

Pluvia · Today 11:07

'I'm going to have to go out and split some logs with an axe.'

Quite. I still can't believe that this is where we are in 2022.

GCC for a whole month of evidecne giving- 'we don't all agree with Alison but she is entitled to her beliefs and that is not why her income dropped, her income dropped because shes a bit shit and took too much time of'

Stonewall in summation: 'Alison is a hateful bigot and these are the consequences of her actions'

GCC - 😣

Yes!

"Agency in common law"....

THIS is what RW was banging on about in the Esses hearing. RW in this case is going to try the same schtick with Esses.

Invoking my favourite Mary Poppins song. This is fab. If we can get the rights we can include this bit as a musical number in the film.

Fidelity fiduciary bank.

Yeah, let's examine the conduct of SK and Drummond - by all means (I can't remember Drummond's first name).

I'm a bit worried about the belief thing.

I don't believe in sex like a faith. It's observable, measurable in a variety of ways, immutable and a fact. That's not a faith, it's something else.

If Forstater means it has to be a belief that's protected then is it a problem?

The judge looks like I feel listening to this

The judge looks like I feel listening to this

Technical arguments about agency
Disassociating SW from GCC

What the fuck is IO on about?

I think the judge doesn't look so fresh today. Maybe lost sleep knowing she has to listen to this bollocks today.

@exwhyzed

Spot on. And if you listen closely you can hear the wailing and rending of garments coming from the GCC...

IO: that's a typo
LOL

So she's saying that AB's views don't even qualify as GC?

That's why IO is saying that MF's WORIADS ruling doesn't apply here. She's saying all the Grainger elements must be applied and not only the Maya example.

Just a comment - the "Equal Treatment Benchbook" does not seem to be about equal treatment for all, but rather about special treatment for some.

Most people going to court don't have the right make others refer to them in a particular way of their choosing.

That's what you get when you fail to engage with any of the witnesses.

Oh, now SW are throwing the STAG etc under the bus. Take note SW supporters - SW will turn its back on you with impunity. Just like is has to to the LBT community.