Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 16

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Thread 11 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555145-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-11

Thread 12 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555687-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-12

Thread 13 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556235-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-13

Thread 14 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556407-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-14

Thread 15 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556803-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-15

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, 25 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Cathryn McGahey - Bar Council Ethics Committee's VC (24 May)
Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)
Colin Cook - Head clerk at GCC (24 May)
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing (25 May)
Kathryn Cronin - barrister at GCC (25 May)
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge (26 May)
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers (26 May)

To Come

Closing arguments for AB, GCC, and SW (20 June)

@BenCoopersSupportWren never too early for support sweetstuffs!

I'm just going for another read of the article - it's like eating a whole packet of borders biscuits in one sitting. The sugar rush is amazing!

So GCC quick question

7 tweets = bad for reputation

A month long court case where your chamber comes across as a badly run chambers with a very questionable grasp of the law = good for reputation then??

Was it worth it? Or maybe just maybe if you'd engaged your lawyer brains just for a millisecond at the time and I don't know maybe spoken to your friend Allison to see why she was so upset and concerned then you could have saved yourselves, and Allison from this utter clusterfuck!

This clusterfuck has been building for years and HAD to happen. I feel a bit sorry for GCC as they just happened to be the fall guys but it was going to be one corporate entity or another that pushed the wrong person too far. The fact that they are human rights lawyers just ramps up the poetic justice of it all.

This case has been building in the ether and the Twittersphere for aeons. GCC just provided the lightning rod to ground it to earth and bring it to public attention.

All hail GCC. Continuing the good fight for justice for the underdog even when they're trying to do the absolute opposite

Thank you @McDuffy and @Bundlephobia

That was a lovely read.

@IdisagreeMrHochhauser
All hail GCC. Continuing the good fight for justice for the underdog even when they're trying to do the absolute opposite

I love this 😂

Well, quite (on the levelling up of friends) and release from an atmosphere that was so well captured in Harry Miller's ruling.

There is no question that trans people, who undoubtedly face much discrimination, are entitled to protection. No group should be subjected to harassment or prejudice. Nonetheless, those fighting for trans rights should not be allowed to trample on the cherished freedoms of others. These must include the right to talk about social and political issues in a way that does not break the law. As the judge in Mr Miller’s case, Mr Justice Julian Knowles, put it: “In this country we have never had a Cheka, a Gestapo or a Stasi. We have never lived in an Orwellian society.”

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-times-view-on-harry-miller-twitter-and-the-trans-debate-thought-police-s5r6kqg0h?

Tangential to the other important matter you raise, I wonder if we need a MN Bake Off to create a recipe for Allison Bailey Shortbread or other comestibles that we can all eat together at certain times (such as June 20)?

I take it there will be some kind of charabanc to take us home after all that drinking? Or will we just slump to the floor until we wake the next afternoon morning?

What are the drinking words & phrases going to be?

The Bluestocking is set in a village with a portal that we can access at will. We use the portal to go home but also keep piles of blankets and pillows in cupboards and we drop them over sleepy people and tuck in pillows on the days that we're so tired (and emotional) we drift off.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3435161-Badley-Fuckitt-Welcomes-Careful-Drivers

We may need to agree our preferred phrases and design our bingo cards.

have followed these threads and neglected my children (and work). My flabber is gasted.

These tribunals and actions have exposed us to a number of Mrs Jellybys. I'm fairly confident we're all a long way from that. We all join you in gasted flabbers.

Having read that Times article, I wonder if the senior people are took time out from their schedules (despite the fact that yesterday was Friday) to outline marketing strategies for GCC as they seek to recover from this.

Evidence during the hearing, which finished on Thursday, has been lurid and fractious, with barristers who are used to asking questions in court being forced into the uncomfortable position of facing a grilling in the witness box.

Colin Cook captured this well in his unguarded comment, I feel. I should think all of the barristers and QC understand WhatsApp groups as well as they do Twitter. Perhaps they should seek out the young man who made this generous offer and whose assistance was so warmly embraced by a MN viper on pg 2. Nonetheless, from the technical competence we've seen on display from all these QCs, I fear that they are the real life versions of this viper's caricature hapless soul.

Oh thank GOD you're here! Thank you SO much. I've been using these magic boxes for over 20 years without a CLUE what I'm doing. I remember when the demon known as the internet came into my house. you'd have been about 5 back then. I have been keeping the evil at bay with chicken legs and candles. Thank goodness you've arrived.

Back when my job involved working on these machines all day, I just bashed them with my tits and hoped for the best.

I'm not actually sure how I managed to get on here, tbh. I was dusting it one day and all this stuff appeared.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/parenting/2307274-I-am-everything-you-hate-about-people-on-the-internet-I-am-here-to-help?page=2

You lightweights - depending on the flavour I would wrest a fairy cake from the jaws pf the cat without a second thought.

I may have been known to scrape the icing off the side of a large cake where the cat had licked it and then re-iced it before giving it to my husband (I did tell him).

Does anyone remember what year Michelle Brewer worked for Gendered Intelligence?

On Stonewall's website it says this

Following this consultation, Stonewall announced in February 2015 that it would now be campaigning for all of the LGBT community and was beginning a path to trans inclusion.
As part of this move, all Stonewall staff received trans inclusive training from Gendered Intelligence. Stonewall also established a Trans Advisory Group to steer Stonewall’s integration of trans equality across all of the charity’s campaigns and programmes. The group reflects a diverse range of trans voices and experiences.

Does anyone have a link to the Jonathan Ames article from 6th May, please?

'Stonewall activism is 'like protection racket'

I need it for my arsenal as evidence to get the bastards out of my workplace.
They think I'm going to let this lie...

Danke Schoen in advance.

She was a director from 2 May 2019 to 30 January 2020. Source: Companies House.

@Waitwhat23 everything I eat these days seems to be contaminated by the cat.

Meh, I just assume it adds to the flavour and carry on!

There is however one fairy cake still in wrapper which is currently peaking out from under the sofa. The neighbours cat stuck her claws in it just as I sat down last night and proceeded to throw it around the living room like a injured mouse for ten minutes. Once it got stuck she did a little cry and a loud huff and went off home!

Just as soon as my tablets have kicked in I'll summon up the energy to rescue it. However I will not be eating that one. Even I have my limits on how much cat I consume with each meal! There is cat licked and then there is cat licked!

Any good?

Allison Bailey: Stonewall’s activism is ‘like protection racket’

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c7d32c72-cca1-11ec-bb1d-4e283d8ec187?shareToken=c1a65a1a135ee91730cc30d3f74326a0

I was wondering if she worked for them before becoming a Director.

I'm name changing like a good'un on this thread today, which is a shame as my good will is under this name and my previous name and I have at least two others on this thread alone. Can't keep up with myself.

Was this the event referred to in cross examination?

SH, MB and Gendered Intelligence on the same bill in 2016

www.gardencourtchambers.co.uk/events/transjustice-conference

That's so funny.

I have just been patronised by google! There were no matches for the search terms so this is the google advice.

Try using words that might appear on the page that you’re looking for. For example, 'cake recipes' instead of 'how to make a cake'.

Clearly hasn't heard about the wonders of tit bashing the keyboard. 😂

I was wondering if MB trained Stonewall on Trans equality. It would explain at lot.

GCC - Allison tweeted something and some trans activists have also tweeted and it's going to become a twitter storm if we don't put a tweet out saying we are looking into her tweets.

Also GCC - we have absolutely no idea how twitter works.

I've just read the accounts/annual report from the period when Michelle Brewer was with Gendered Intelligence - bloody hell. I didn't realise it had so much money coming in, and that they have half a million quids' worth of paid staff.

The language is extraordinary: 'women and feminine spectrum people' appears in one gobshite paragraph on 'intersectionality'.

They 'train' a lot of organisations who have no business touching them with a bargepole, eg the NHS and government departments, the Office for National Statistics and Action Aid. They get grants from many sources including Children in Need.

They get grants from many sources including Children in Need.

Somewhere on MN (we feel the loss of R0, we need her so much) there is a thread where somebody did an analysis of charity awards (from CIN amongst others) to LGBT causes. It was fascinating to see how much money was directed to T with still some for G but not far from a total collapse in money for L.

Thank you for sharing this, and as a comment - "Whoo-hoo!"

I hope for Allison's sake that she wipes the floor with both GCC and SW, but from a GC point of view she has achieved a huge success - she has lifted a rock and forced what is lurking under it to come out into daylight.

People are talking and realising that they are not alone when they disagree with SW stance - this is huge.

And vindictive though it is, I am glad that GCC has lost a lot of professional respect - they deserve to. I'm sure that prior to the hearing it was mentioned that there were 200 barristers at GCC, and nearer the end 150 was the number given. Does anyone know how accurate these numbers are? Does this suggest that some of the barristers are moving chambers so as not to be associated with GCC?

I confess I feel a bit sorry for the more junior members who likely had very little idea of the details of Allison's situation, and were just aware that X was happening.

When the kids were little we used to have a competition every Sunday to see who got the "lucky cat hair" in their yorkshire pudding.

Spoiler alert: We were usually all favoured . . .

Gendered Intelligence is probably more significant than Stonewall in terms of impact. Stonewall is following their lead, and are the PR face for it - using an established brand - but GI did most of the real work here, and it was largely in-place by the time Stonewall joined in.

In a sense, Stonewall joining in with the "T" was an admission of defeat - "we can see you've already got these institutions captured on the trans stuff, so we're going to either have to align, or come into conflict."

Agreed re Gendered Intelligence. They're the ones with the real power, the ones working behind the scenes indoctrinating training judges with their anti women rhetoric and sitting alongside the powerful.
It's long overdue for some sunlight to be shone on their anti democratic activities.

Thank you @Bundlephobia and @McDuffy for the link, it was a pleasure to read. Blessed sunlight.