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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 15

1000 replies

ickky · 26/05/2022 09:23

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:

AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhause

r QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC (teehee)
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Thread 11 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555145-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-11

Thread 12 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555687-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-12

Thread 13 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556235-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-13

Thread 14 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556407-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-14

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, 25 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Cathryn McGahey - Bar Council Ethics Committee's VC (24 May)
Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)
Colin Cook - Head clerk at GCC (24 May)
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing (25 May)
Kathryn Cronin - barrister at GCC (25 May)
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge (26 May)
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers (26 May)

To come:

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
StrongOutspokenOftenIrritating · 26/05/2022 14:17

Yes yes. You’re super important in trans law

Mmmnotsure · 26/05/2022 14:17

We have having an entire history of transrights legal cases, with everyone who took part referenced by name - still going

And then dares to say I need to keep answers short

Pyjamagame · 26/05/2022 14:18

Birdsweepsin · 26/05/2022 14:12

You made biscuits out of Paddington Bear?

That would be something! No, the eldest child has made paw-shaped orange shortbread biscuits sandwiched together with marmalade. Some YouTube recipe I believe. I keep thinking of BC's hard stare compared to Paddington's.

Roseglen84 · 26/05/2022 14:18

nauticant · 26/05/2022 14:13

SH starts off with a whopper. Her recusal from the investigation because she was active in trans rights law had nothing to do with impartiality.

Yes, so disingenuous to backtrack on her own words. It's clear from the email the implication is that she knows she will not be unbiased.

She's now waffling that campaigning is somehow not in any way lobbying 🤔

WallaceinAnderland · 26/05/2022 14:19

Why can none of them answer a straightforward question, do they think it's a trap?

Pyjamagame · 26/05/2022 14:19

Christ, but these people like the sound of their own voices.

Clymene · 26/05/2022 14:19

She corrected herself - campaigning urgh extra legal work

Short answers please says Ben!

Mmmnotsure · 26/05/2022 14:19

BC: Let's go through some egs, hopefully with short answers

arghbrokenwebsites · 26/05/2022 14:20

iccky thanks! June 20th is perfect, I already have the day booked as holiday 🎉

ifIwerenotanandroid · 26/05/2022 14:20

SHUT UP!

Mmmnotsure · 26/05/2022 14:20

I am involved in campaigns but don't align myself with trans activists.

ResisterRex · 26/05/2022 14:21

I am actually travelling on 20 June. What are the chances?!

Signalbox · 26/05/2022 14:22

No wonder trans activism has got so far so quickly with all these campaigning / activist lawyers working to ensure it's progression

SidewaysOtter · 26/05/2022 14:24

Birdsweepsin · 26/05/2022 14:12

You made biscuits out of Paddington Bear?

If you roll bears out thinly enough you can use a cookie cutter. Need to take the hat off a Paddington first but at least they’re marinated in marmalade.

Boiledbeetle · 26/05/2022 14:24

The problem I'm having watching this is usually I watch Netflix on 1.5x speed. So this to me is so so slow. I keep wanting to speed them up via a button!

Clymene · 26/05/2022 14:24

Vulnerable and marginalised people

Tara Wolff assaulting Maria MacLachlan in 2017

Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 15
tabbycatstripy · 26/05/2022 14:24

Did she just say 'trans activist' is a loaded term when it was actually there in the description?

Gabcsika · 26/05/2022 14:25

Signalbox · 26/05/2022 14:22

No wonder trans activism has got so far so quickly with all these campaigning / activist lawyers working to ensure it's progression

Yes. It's a real privilege, isn't it?>

SH just said "Trans Activist" is a loaded term.

Then reads out TELI description who use the term trans activist.

WallaceinAnderland · 26/05/2022 14:25

SH transactivism sounds like a loaded term. My job is to work alongside groups working in transactivism

WookeyHole · 26/05/2022 14:25

If the closing submissions are 20th June, what's happening tomorrow?

Roseglen84 · 26/05/2022 14:25

A 'progressive' lawyer - is that a thing?

She's getting tetchy now...

CriticalCondition · 26/05/2022 14:26

So here we are. Engagement with third sector organisations seeking to get work.

Mmmnotsure · 26/05/2022 14:26

These people make their money from this area. This is their livelihood.

Once your personal beliefs are so intrinsically linked with putting food on the table, there is an even greater need to identify and double down.

Strategic litigation? SH asks. She is looking for the traps.

She wants to benefit a whole class of people not women, though.

SH (who represents only on the trans side) - I am on the side of sustainable and correct arguments

Pyjamagame · 26/05/2022 14:26

progressive=working beyond the law

nauticant · 26/05/2022 14:26

SH denies being an activist and describes herself as "a lawyer who gives independent legal advice".

But she also identifies as being a trans campaigner. She is contradicting herself.

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