Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 12

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Thread 11 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555145-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-11

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Katherine McGahy (24 May)
Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)

To come:

Colin Cook - clerk at GCC (24 May)
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, to continue on 25th May)
Kathryn Cronin - barrister at GCC
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge.

DR is lying.

What a prick.

Apparently DR didn't actually tell AB about his fury but signalled it by "glaring at her, indicating my displeasure without speaking".

Another complete an utter weasel.

DR doesn't like listening to calls where women have different opinions to him because that's a lack of courtesy.

But he's FINE and actively lobbying for women in prisons to be assaulted by male sexual offenders who identify as women because 'TWAW'. In the face of evidence from prison officers and psychologists that some male sex offenders will transition specifically to be able to have access to victims.

Nice.

I think AB deserves a medal for sharing an office with this male supremacist.

Ooh collective view! And there it is.

I've emailed twice and still not got a PIN either. Frustrating isn't it. Tempted to email again.

Hurty words, waah waah!

Trying to signal to the world that we were interested in trans people - by having a gender neutral toilet.

DR - We had a gender neutral toilet.

We see them as a group with very little social power.

WomensLandArmy · Today 09:47

Thanks all. I've emailed them twice and it's still not been sent to me. Trying not to take it personally.

I am in the same position and would love a PIN via DM if anyone is allowed and willing to do it

DR says GCC had taken a position to be ‘broadly pro trans’. But they never had a more detailed collective view. ‘Broadly’ Chambers was on the ‘side’ of trans people.

That has specificity. You can’t say you’re ‘broadly pro trans’ without that having some basis in terms of what rights trans people should have.

If anyone wants a log in PM me.

I think DR is misunderstanding. It's like when we say all rapists are male and they take it to mean all males are rapists.

Vague and nebulous - yeah right DR

'Vague and measureless' just about sums it up really...

Funny how he has recovered his memory from last week, his recollections are so much clearer, I wonder if someone has been helping him with his recollections

Chambers' collective view. He said it.

BC: you did understand that Chambers had an opinion that was opposed to that of AB?

I think DR seemed to agree on this having set out that Chambers' support of trans people was a vague thumbs-up with no opinion on specific issues like self-id?

Ha, nebulous just as applicable

waiting for a pin to get access

Oh so he doesn't like listening to AB on the phone but is fine with forcing her - a lesbian survivor of CSA to have a 'gender neutral' toilet i.e. mixed sex at work.

I remember recently in Afghanistan how the women there were saying so many men were sort of ok with the Taliban take over and did very little to fight against it because for all that they'd pretended to see women as equal whilst the US forces were there, they didn't really think it. DR is those men.

But again, AB didn’t refer to ‘trans people’ as rapists. She was talking more specifically about a more select group of people (male prisoners who identify as trans after committing sex crimes). Very different.

GCRich · Today 09:56

WomensLandArmy · Today 09:47

Thanks all. I've emailed them twice and it's still not been sent to me. Trying not to take it personally.

I am in the same position and would love a PIN via DM if anyone is allowed and willing to do it

FYI MY PIN ARRIVED FROM TRIBUNAL 21 MINS AFTER REQUEST

"let's make this a space that we can both work in"

ie change your behaviour as it's not acceptable to me.

He really thinks he is the most important person in the room doesn't he?