Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 12

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Thread 11 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555145-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-11

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Katherine McGahy (24 May)
Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)

To come:

Colin Cook - clerk at GCC (24 May)
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, to continue on 25th May)
Kathryn Cronin - barrister at GCC
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge.

I suggest that CM, Vice Chair of the Bar Council Ethics Committee violated the Bar Standards Code of Conduct, Core Duty no5 when she compared transwomen overcoming lesbians' refusal to have sex with them, with Black people overcoming the apartheid regime in South Africa:

"CD5 You must not behave in a way which is likely to diminish the trust and confidence which the public places in you or in the profession"

Everybody except a black lesbian women of course, or indeed any other women who disagree with the Trans/GI agenda, they are just irrational and therefore beneath contempt, that's how it goes isn't it GCC?

It's been this way in champagne socialism/middle class liberalism for a very long time, especially in parties such as New Labour.

One has one's special pets of patronised groups, the needy, who are championed, but those pets are supposed to stay gratefully in their subordinate boxes and behave as expected; it has never been appreciated if those pets start thinking for themselves, talking back, or having voices/lived experience that goes off message.

Which kind of demonstrates that it's all about the virtue signalling, image and propping up of self as a superior and higher being rather than any genuine care or interest. A rather odd version of 'equality' has become a game for the wealthy and safely distanced to play amongst themselves. Hence 'I support all voices - but not female ones, or lesbian ones or black ones if they stray beyond what I give them permission to say'. Downright Victorian in many ways.

@ickky thanks for new thread!

I'm fairly sure that 'homosexuality is apartheid' is probably a 'hate incident' if one goes in for reporting that kind of thing.

However you identify the correct way to write it is all that matters. Don't let bigots tell you that there is a right or wrong way

Here we go...

Colin Cook about to give evidence. Bundle links still not useable.

Back in and the bundle links are still expired 🙄

Oh it's as boringly old hat as the misogyny is.

'you just haven't had me yet, darlin'.'

If I had a quid for every time I'd heard that one. And 'what a waste'. (of a body a male could be enjoying) That's a frequent flyer too.

It's the penis version of the Michael Buble song: you just haven't met me yet! As if females being homosexual is just a bit of silly girlish messing around while waiting for the right dick to be inserted.

Link that to Ivy explaining that homosexual females must 'learn to cope' with hetero sex. It doesn't see sex as anything a female has any business perceiving a right to choice about, or to look for enjoyment of, or an expectation of being treated as basically human, or seeing themselves as anything other than a service point for meeting male 'needs'.

Some male people have the self awareness to dress this up more than others, more fig leaves employed, but its the same basic core issue of grubby misogyny. Females are things to be used, not people and certainly not equals.

I think the Bar Council will be looking very carefully at CMs statements

The admin in this case has been piss poor.

.

I've only just managed to join this tribunal, and and I am thinking I've missed the best bits with the previous fella sounding so awful. This guy seems quite staid.

Stonewall & GCC must be happy.

I don't expect much of value to come from CC's testimony for AB. Happy to be proved wrong though.

@MaudeYoung I think someone mentioned on previous thread, it's about the validation as a 'woman' for some tw. But lots of straight men fetishise lesbian sex, so that probably plays into it. I also wonder, and it makes me feel ill, if the reluctance itself is attractive to a few, hopefully very few.

Why is AH examining Colin Cook? Shouldn't his questions come after Ben Cooper's?

Page 46, paragraph 15?!!! How long are those paragraphs???

Never mind, that was all amendments to the witness statement apparently!

They always do that first if there are errors or amendments.

Prediction is that CC will sink the financial detriment part of the case. I don’t think the clerks overtly plotted against AB.

You wait til it gets going

Oooh BC's beard has got bigger since Maya's tribunal!

A question that hasn't been asked about the "Cotton Ceiling" issue is "Why are men even thinking about having sexual relations with lesbians?"

Because, for a sub set of men, all women are fair game and a possibility for sexual gratification. What the woman in question wants is immaterial to throw-backs like them.

I think this is an accurate assessment.