Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 12

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Thread 11 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555145-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-11

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Katherine McGahy (24 May)
Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)

To come:

Colin Cook - clerk at GCC (24 May)
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, to continue on 25th May)
Kathryn Cronin - barrister at GCC
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge.

He knows nothing, but remembers particular conversations Allison had with journalists.

No way did AB say that. No fucking way did she say 'all'.

No one would say 'all trans prisoners are rapists'. It's just a preposertous claim from DR.

Did any journalist print any of these highly inflammatory statements from AB at the time? I would have thought that would make a bit of a splash.

Key questions now about him listening in to calls.

He is holding his emotions together much better today. Wonder if he's read the criticism of him.

Apparently she said that chambers was, "lefty and woke" and this is a terrible thing apparently.

DR is now saying that AB said ALL trans prisoners are male bodies and racist.

Discussion of what he had overheard.

AB characterised the chambers as "lefty and woke".

I believe she said the second one, I don't believe she said the first.

A vulnerable group...blah, blah, blah. 🙄

DR is adamant that when he was monitoring her telephone calls she said "All trans prisoners are rapists." AB denied this in her witness statement. It seems like an odd thing to say, it's the kind of bullshitting you get on twitter but serious gender critical people are not saying this.

Listening to DR more, it seems that AB referring to GCC as "woke" really offended him.

Rapists not racist.

DR: I heard AB say - to a journalist on the phone and to my face at another time - all trans prisoners are rapists.

He has repeated this phrase a number of times and is certain of his memory of it.

DR: she shouldn't say this about a vulnerable group of people

Yes indeed, those trans women prisoners in the female estate are surely the most vulnerable group of all.

Chinny reckon Dave.

We know some transprisoners are rapists, a large percentage are sexual offenders.

He should not have read anything about the hearing since his last appearance.

DR "AB was forcing me to be there when she said those things"

Oh my gosh I think we have a new Pinoccio, someone's pants are on fire. There is no way AB would have said ALL trans prisoners are rapists.

Thanks all. I've emailed them twice and it's still not been sent to me. Trying not to take it personally.

Yes AB would absolutely say that 🙄

it’s a classic TRA tactic - turn on the hyperbole

well you’re not on twitter now DR

Oh god the irony. DR doesn't like being forced to listen in to a conversation against his will (though presumably he could have left the room).

Yet he's super keen on forcing women in general and in prisons etc to be forced to accept male bodies in their toilets / changing rooms / sports / hospital words without their consent.

This guy is outright lying. Problem is with compulsive liars is that they believe their own lies.

Can only hear a bit over noisy people in house but I can't believe what he seems to be saying?! AB said 'all trans women in prison are rapists' to a journalist yet the only record of this is in David "I didn't know anything" Renton's mind?!

I smell smoke...maybe because someone's pants are on fire. 🤨

Little weasel.

DR angry that AB was 'forcing him to be there to hear' things he didn't want to hear.

No compassion from DR for women who don't want people they don't expect in support groups/washrooms/other single-sex spaces.

Yeah, this guy is a fithy liar. Not just trying to avoid telling the truth liar.

Actually making shit up.

I could post my thoughts right now, I could but probably best not too.

IMO obviously.